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AlbertA

The HDR thread

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Found out that if I use my Xbox One X to watch Altered Carbon on Netflix, it just shows up as HDR.  But when I use my LG B7, it shows up as Dolby Vision.  Don't really see any difference though.

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So after wondering for quite a while why I could never get HDR through Netflix I’ve finally figured it out. A comment on a roku forum stated that Netflix’s HDR signal was only at 60hz. My epson will not accept HDR at anything other than 30 or 24hz. 

 

That kinda sucks. 

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That's odd. That must vary from app to app, or by whether the playback device can do Netflix at 24p as the Netflix app on my LG E6 plays HDR-10 and Dolby Vision content from Netflix just fine, and the 2016 LG sets can't do Dolby Vision at 60hz. Can the Roku not be set do 24hz output? 

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I believe the Roku 4K HDR mode only detects 30hz, so Netflix doesn't even try. So there is no option for changing that. Amazon has some form of HDR that comes through and I have successfully gotten the one thing I’ve tried to pass HDR in Plex. I can play with it more, but it seems pretty widespread and the Epson tech sheet was very specific about how HDR gets to the unit. My Sony 800 will detect HDR capable on Netflix, but won’t output anything other than straight 4K. PS4 is the same as Roku. 

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After skimming through hundreds of pages in AVS and finally finding a good search string I have Netflix HDR functioning on my Sony 800. It was an obscure setting under the 24p settings, four of them, one for network content. It needed to be set to Auto. 

 

Still no go on the Roku. Which essentially makes it worthless with the exception of Plex. There is only a generic media player on the 800 and it is rather featureless in comparison to the regular Plex app. And buggy. 

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So it's been more than a couple of years and it seems like HDR delivery is still a bit of a mess right? Not to mention in combination with Dolby Atmos.

 

The LG 2017 OLED line seems to shine here:

 

Netflix -  Dolby Vision, HDR10 + Dolby Atmos support up to 60fps

VUDU -  Dolby Vision, HDR10 + Dolby Atmos support

Youtube - HDR10 support even at 60fps

Amazon - HDR10 support

 

In contrast, with my Vizio 2017 M series:

 

Netflix - Dolby Vision, HDR10 but no Dolby Atmos, DV only up to 30fps, otherwise fallsback to HDR10 (like in Sparks and Meridian)

VUDU - Dolby Vision, HDR10 + Dolby Atmos support - Though the latest firmware update made Vudu not delivery Dolby Vision anymore... seriously?

Youtube - No 4K 60fps support, No HDR, nothing!, only up to 4K 30 FPS support... darn VP9 codec...

Amazon  - Just enabled recently, HDR10 support.

 

Then we have other devices, like the Xbox... You can have atmos on Netflix on the Xbox One S/ Xbox One X, but then you get always-on HDR10 and no Dolby Vision support. Similar story with PS4 Pro, except without dolby atmos... Do these platform not provide API's to switch HDR content dynamically? I haven't tested VUDU on either of these devices so it's not clear if it's a Netflix or a platform issue. Edit: VUDU on the Xbox One S/X works fine and switches based on content so it's Netflix.

PS4 Pro VUDU doesn't even do 4K bah!

 

And then UHD players... very few support dolby vision playback right? Sony x800 promises it in the future - so I only know of the oppo udp-203. And of course no Dolby Vision in the Xbox one S/X... 

( a reminder to sign the petition here: https://www.change.org/p/microsoft-have-dolby-vision-and-hdr10-added-to-xbox-one-x and vote for support here: https://xbox.uservoice.com/forums/251650-console-hardware-accessories/suggestions/15067476-hdr-dolby-vision-support-for-xbox-one-s)

 

Also why are some UHD Discs only HDR10 but the streaming version is Dolby Vision? 

 

How does Apple TV 4K fare on all this? 

 

Overall I'm quite happy with the built-in apps in the LG 2017 OLED where things just seem to work like you expect them to. 

I really only need dolby vision support on the Xbox One X. :)

 

 

 

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Don't forget HDR10+. :Psycho:

 

Amazon supports HDR10+ content right now but it turns out they are not even using a certified version of it as HDR10+ itself seems to be in limbo (apparently Samsung even removed reference to it on their TV listings). At this rate it may be DOA.

 

There's also HLG, broadcast HDR. This is very good (I was able to demo it via a BBC Planet Earth stream directly on my LG E6 last year).

 

 

37 minutes ago, AlbertA said:

Also why are some UHD Discs only HDR10 but the streaming version is Dolby Vision? 

 

I was wondering this throughout last year. Apparently it is down to the authoring toolsets and different requirements for streaming/downloads vs disc. As a result, it took a lot longer for optical authoring houses to get their certification for Dolby Vision, and they didn't all get the toolsets up and running at the same time either, so some studios were faster out of the gate than others because they don't all use the same company for authoring.

 

Still, that doesn't quite answer the question as to why studios, save for Lionsgate and Paramount, are not now using Dolby Vision consistently. Sony, Universal and Warner cherrypick when they use DV (Disney remains to be seen since Last Jedi is their first DV disc. Given their tight relationship with Dolby theatrically you'd think everything they do now going forward will be DV, but we'll see). Perhaps they don't always want to pay the licensing fee, but then if that were true it begs the question why are they happy to pay it for streaming variants of the same content? It's a head scratcher. 

 

Long term, HDR10 and DV doesn't matter all that much so I don't lose sleep over a disc not getting DV, but until we have displays that can get bright enough to avoid tone mapping entirely then it could be argued that having DV is probably preferable (and there is still a debate about whether DV's 12bit improves quality already even though it's being down-converted to 10bit for output since no TV supports 12bit yet). 

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HDR10+ also just uses a universal algorithm, so it isn't actually capable of doing much more with HDR than a TV's own dynamic tone mapping algorithm can do. In other words, it simulates dynamic HDR, compared to Dolby Vision's actual end to end content based dynamic optimisation. This is what Sony and LG claim at least, and it has yet to be disputed by Samsung and Panasonic.  

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If my projector dies, I was planning on getting the Optoma UHD60.  It is basically a descendant of the 1080p Optoma projector I have now.  I have not been following UHD very closely.  But what I do know is that you guys won't shut up about Dolby Vision, which this does not support.  I'm in no rush to upgrade, so I imagine next year's model will be better, probably support Dolby Vision, probably will support True 4K instead of the bastardized 4k it currently supports, etc.

 

What's your general opinion for a guy whose projector is at the end of its life, and who is interested in 4K HDR.

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48 minutes ago, foogledricks said:

If my projector dies, I was planning on getting the Optoma UHD60.  It is basically a descendant of the 1080p Optoma projector I have now.  I have not been following UHD very closely.  But what I do know is that you guys won't shut up about Dolby Vision, which this does not support.  I'm in no rush to upgrade, so I imagine next year's model will be better, probably support Dolby Vision, probably will support True 4K instead of the bastardized 4k it currently supports, etc.

 

What's your general opinion for a guy whose projector is at the end of its life, and who is interested in 4K HDR.

 

Try to wait another year :)

 

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There's still no clear answer as to whether Dolby Vision can be implemented for front projection at home. The whole process is about control. A certified player can talk back and forth with a certified TV. Fine, but while a certified player could also swap data back and forth with a certified projector, neither device can talk to the screen. Theatrically, Dolby certify and calibrate everything in 'Dolby Cinema' auditoriums from the screen, to the projector, the distance between the two, and even the design of the auditorium to minimise reflections and light loss. That's harder to implement at home on.a basic consumer level, and some have wondered whether front projection DV at home could be limited to professionally certified installers and dedicated home theatre rooms for their clients. Also, some have wondered whether DV at home might even be limited to laser light projectors (just as it is theatrically) as laser projection avoids the issue of lamp light degradation and colour shifting that traditional PJ's suffer from over time.

 

I'm sure this is a market Dolby want to provide for. The big question is really how when there are so many variables in the way of achieving an optimal presentation at home.

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Does anyone have any recommendations for HDMI switches that work with HDR? It seems most haven’t been updated to support it yet. 

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I know monoprice has a few that came out at the end of the year, but I have not tried them yet. I thinned out my entertainment rack when I got my new TV so I did not need one , because there were none that worked well, and I did not want to waste money trying,

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No reasonably priced 4k projector has real ability to display a colour gamut noticeably wider than regular Rec. 209, nor display a dynamic range bigger than my 1080p telly. So you’re only getting the new, better masters the format carries and a few more pixels. 

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