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Angry the Clown

Disneyland/World and Universal parks discussion thread (where the magic never ends... until a ride you loved is knocked down and replaced with something lame)

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One thing that I am worried about with Galaxy’s Edge is that they are being too ambitious with it, and that something fairly major will be stripped out of it before too long. I’m most worried about the interactions with people in the park and the reputation system as something that just doesn’t work on an operations level.

 

It could also be something like how they apparently won’t sell normal items in the gift shops and that you have to travel outside Galaxy’s Edge for something like a tshirt, or not selling Coke. 

 

It’s possible that these types of things, for what ever reason, be it operations or marketing or just profit, which could make the land very special and immersive, will be gone by the time the majority of people get to experience Batuu. 

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I think food and drink will be the first to go, within four to six months, if the menus are truly going to be as immersive as has been rumoured.Ideally they should just seek to have a fine balance (people are still going to be using dollars and credit cards to pay for stuff after all). Merchandise is less of an issue when you have the gift shop attached to Star Wars selling the branded stuff, and Hollywood Studios has that Lunch Bay area although to be honest I truly hope once Galaxy's Edge is open they seek to diminish the presence of Star Wars around the rest of the park. 

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12 hours ago, dienekes96 said:

We did stay at a Disney Resort.  We've stayed at quite a few over the past 14 years (again, thanks to my parents), from the expensive deluxe options (Contemporary - walking distance from Magic Kingdom, Monorail through the lobby, OG design; and Wilderness Lodge, northwestern design, good restaurants, good pools) down to the moderates (Port Orleans, and Coronado Springs).  This time was at Coronado (our second time).  We like the cost and the location is as close to AK as you can get, unless you stay at Animal Kingdom Lodge (Which is awesome, but deluxe priced - we ate there, but stayed at Coronado).  If you come for more than a week, Dan, I'd recommend staying at a few different resorts, to experience the pools and themes, if you choose to stay on property.

 

Ah you were at Coronado Springs? A recent Tim Tracker video showed all the construction going on there. Was it disruptive or were you able to have a nice stay there?

 

The few times I went to WDW as a kid was all on property (though my first time in the late 80s was actually at a nice Hilton in the Disney Springs, or Disney Village as it was known way back then. Not sure which Hilton it is looking at how many there are scattered around that area now, I just remember we were upgraded to a suite, I met a French girl and we watched Beetlejuice and Field of Dreams twice over on room pay per view, and I had my first encounter with the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cabinet in the hotel arcade. Good times!). I love the resorts, and me and my Dad would head out to some of the others just to look around or to have a meal (if the monorail went somewhere, I wanted to see it).

 

By far my favourite of those I stayed at, in 91 or 92, was the Yacht Club. I love how it connected seamlessly to the Beach Club Resort as it made the place feel huge, and loved that it was close to EPCOT (when EPCOT was in its prime and probably my favourite park). I was watching a Tim Tracker visit to the resort recently and after all these years it brought back so many memories. I was so happy to see the pool with sand at the bottom is still the same, and that the little diner is still there and still serving amazing fudge sundaes. Great knowing the Yachtsman Steakhouse is still there too and apparently still one of the best restaurants on Disney property (I had a ribeye steak in there and I can still remember how well seasoned it was almost 30yrs later). 

 

I'll definitely be on property whenever I go back, and may well indeed look to split my stay between a couple fo resorts as I cannot imagine being there for less than two weeks. I think a lot of people fail to recognise that they are free to visit and dine at other resorts, and maybe they just don't have the time, which is a shame as so many of them are experiences in their own right. It's why it's going to take years to save up for, really as it's going to be insanely expensive. There's just so much new for me to see.

 

My last visit was in 94 and I stayed at Dixie Landings, which is now Port Orlean's Riverside. That was a really nice place. I guess it still falls into the "moderate" category of resorts, but even so it was, and looks to still be, beautifully themed. I'd love to see, maybe even stay, at the Boardwalk as it seems to have a similar flavour to the Yacht Club with a jazz era twist which is very much to my liking. 

 

It's fascinating looking at modern day wait times as I've no memory of waits being quite so long 25+yrs ago, and they probably weren't as park and resort growth over the past three decades has pushed up park capacity at all these places. The fast pass is an alien concept to me (I'd still worry you might miss out on queue theming with fast passes. Is that the case with a lot of rides? That's half the fun for me). 

 

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As for early admission or staying late because you stayed at a resort...it is usually only a single Park each day that offers that benefit, so it rotates.  It is also only an extra hour, and it doesn't always lend itself to smaller crowds.  Sometimes the opposite, as many people choose that specific Park for that day.  Regarding crowds, again, I "chose" to go during the peak time, spring break, and spring break in FL to boot.  There are less busy times to go, which is when I'll go as soon as my son is no longer in school.  January and first half of February.  December, up until Christmas.  September.  Early November.

 

I didn't know early entry went on rotation. That's interesting. As a kid I was always there in very late July and early August before my summer holidays ended. I'll have greater freedom to pick and choose when t go next time of course. I'm keeping an eye on all the construction updates and Magic Kingdom anniversary plans. I know these places are always in flux, but I think it is sensible to keep waiting before heading back out there, especially given what it will cost me. I couldn't imagine being there right now with Hollywood Studios half under construction, and I'm kind fo worried what I'd make of EPCOT in its current state. I'd like to be at EPCOT during one of its festivals one year maybe. That'd be nice.

 

I really should to the Paris park for a Disney fix in the interim (I'd still like to get out to Anaheim again too, AND I desperately want to see Tokyo Disney Sea someday). 

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2 hours ago, Angry the Clown said:

Is that the case with a lot of rides? That's half the fun for me). 

 

It really depends on the ride. Some rides, like say Splash Mountain, you see all of the themed queue area but are usually zipping by it to get to the end, so you don’t really get to take it in. Many newer rides have added interactive elements to keep you entertained while you wait, but the queue itself isn’t as interesting. Soarin, for example, has these huge screen games (which are timed to end when the line is about to move) that you play with the people around you in the line. Other than the games, the queue is a nondescript brown building. 

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They don't skip pre-show stuff though, do they? Wouldn't want to miss the Patrick Warburton stuff on Soarin (loved all that when I got to ride it in California).

 

Speaking of Soarin, I was watching some old footage of Kitchen Kabaret over the weekend, which the Florida Soarin took over space from (though apparently the theatre is still back there sitting unused). The songs.... :lol: Oh the memories...

 

 

I never did see Food Rocks that replaced it (until Soarin), which I am pretty sure was open in 94.

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My worry for Galaxy's Edge is a bit different.  I think crowd sizes are going to overwhelm Hollywood Studios, and to a lesser extent the other parks.  The Disney folks will all want to go see the major new stuff, and so will a bunch of people, who are normally not Disney folks, who will visit and are only interested in the Star Wars content.  Star Wars is a bigger center of gravity than Frozen, or Pandora, or a single new ride at one of the Parks, and even Marvel stuff.  I worry that GE will ALWAYS be busy, every day, all the time.  As wonderful as Pandora is, the area was perpetually packed.  My wife and I have watched the ride wait times (ghoulishly) for Pandora for the past week, and it is always busy.  Even after Spring Break.  Now it averages two hours, not three, but that is still quite busy.  Star Wars will be significantly more popular than Pandora.

 

The flip side is that Pandora bodes very well for the theming for GE.  I am very excited to see what they cook up.  

 

Several years back, we did visit Epcot in the fall during their Food and Wine Festival.  I thought it was a great time.  They add a bunch of kiosks with intriguing food and alcohol from countries both included and not included in the Pavilions.

 

Regarding Fastpass, I dig the system.  You get three FP queues per day, which you can schedule 60 days out.  They are tiered, so you won't get Space Mountain and the Seven Dwarfs ride on the same day, but you can at least get a break on waiting in a few lines.  They all have to be at the same park, but if you are going to hit all parks more than once on more than one day, you should be able to schedule most of the biggies with some solid planning.  You do miss the theming, but you can always use Fastpass to ride something a second time.  That way you get the best of both worlds on rides you may want to experience more than once.

 

if you are considering two weeks, I think you could probably hit three-four resorts for a few days each.  An old favorite or two, plus one or two new ones.  Like you, I have no problem traveling between resorts for meals.  The resorts do have security posts now, so you can't just drive onto each, but a reservation at a restaurant is enough to get you parking so you can wander.  They do badge their pools now though, so you can't use another resorts pool.  But other than that, I do like checking out other resorts and their restaurants.  We always wander around the property for a while as well.

 

The Coronado Springs construction didn't bother us.  To be fair, though, we were out of there by 8 AM every day and not back until 10 PM.

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On 12/04/2018 at 4:05 AM, dienekes96 said:

if you are considering two weeks, I think you could probably hit three-four resorts for a few days each.  An old favorite or two, plus one or two new ones.  Like you, I have no problem traveling between resorts for meals.  The resorts do have security posts now, so you can't just drive onto each, but a reservation at a restaurant is enough to get you parking so you can wander.  They do badge their pools now though, so you can't use another resorts pool.  But other than that, I do like checking out other resorts and their restaurants.  We always wander around the property for a while as well.

 

I'd probably hotel hop via Disney's transportation options as I have fond memories of even the park busses.  I think I'd really only need a car to get out to Universal as and when, and Kennedy Space Centre. Long ways off before I decide on that though.

 

I enjoy Tim Tracker's hotel tours. They're fun to watch and it's kind of nice to see how much hasn't changed, which isn't to say many of the resorts look dated as a consequence (quite the opposite. There's an ingenious timeless like design to many of them that Imagineering should really be applauded for). 

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Universal has acquired more land around their expansion areas south of the resort. They've also settled a lawsuit with the previous owner of the land they have been purchasing regarding their ability to build a theme park on the land.

 

Apparently Universal-Vivendi used to actually own all this land previously and sold it off, but attached a restriction on the land to prevent the building of theme parks on it to keep away any competitors. Now they are buying it back, and most likely want to build a theme park on it.

 

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/brinkmann-on-business/os-bz-universal-acquires-more-property-20180412-story.html

 

750x422

 

This picture is from before the most recent purchase, but I'm pretty sure, from the description in the story, and an image Bioreconstruct posted, that it's the red land below Lockheed Martin.

 

Numerous stories that I've read about this land mentions that the Nintendo area could go in this new park. I thought Nintendo was pretty much a lock for the Kids Play area at Studios, so I wonder if these stories are unaware of that, or if the plans are changing.

 

In other Universal news, the new Fast and Furious Supercharged attraction (I hesitate to call it a ride), has soft opened. It looks rather dreadful, but probably still better than Disaster was. TimTracker went through it twice, and the thing that struck me was how the preshow cast members can really change the experience (similar to the Jungle Cruise). They're playing the same characters, but they're doing it quite differently.

 

Finally, they've also announced that there will be a Stranger Things maze at Halloween Horror Nights this year. I'm not the biggest fan of the Halloween stuff (at least not viewing from a distance, I did enjoy visiting) but this is one that I'd be interested in seeing.

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2 hours ago, Graeme said:

Numerous stories that I've read about this land mentions that the Nintendo area could go in this new park. I thought Nintendo was pretty much a lock for the Kids Play area at Studios, so I wonder if these stories are unaware of that, or if the plans are changing.

 

I personally think it would be smarter to put Nintendo in a new park, or at the very least in a park that isn't the "studios" park, one because it has no real place in a movie/tv themed park, and two putting it elsewhere (especially in a brand new park) surely allows greater room for future expansion. I know there were also rumours of Universal maybe licensing Lord of the Rings, and maybe spreading even more Potter out to the third park. Jim Hill was also confident about there being Jurassic World stuff in the new park too. Its a curious thing, as one has to wonder what the general mission statement of a third gate would be and what the park is supposed to encompass. I'm looking forward to hearing some definitive news, but oh God I'm going to end up having to be out there for a month to take all this stuff in whenever I go back to Florida. :lol:

 

If they did move Nintendo to the third park, I wonder what could live in the kids area at Universal. I'd love to see a classic IP like Jaws or Back to the Future come back in a new form, either there or at a brand new park. You'd think there'd be an appetite for such things given the nostalgia driven culture we now live in. It's just so odd that Universal have to fill their parks with so many properties they don't actually own.

 

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In other Universal news, the new Fast and Furious Supercharged attraction (I hesitate to call it a ride), has soft opened. It looks rather dreadful, but probably still better than Disaster was. TimTracker went through it twice, and the thing that struck me was how the preshow cast members can really change the experience (similar to the Jungle Cruise). They're playing the same characters, but they're doing it quite differently.

 

Yeah I watched Tim's video (I thought it was really interesting to see alternate cast members too). The queue area seems to take up more space than the ride itself by the look of it, and ride capacity looks as though it will get a lot of people through quite quickly. I did watch another Youtube video of the on-ride section that was promoted next to Tim's video of the queue...etc and yeah, it's just the Hollywood tram tour segment at the end of the day (Diesel just looks like he doesn't want to be doing any of the on ride video stuff. School play like levels of performance, and the party bust scene is hilarious in all the wrong ways. It's like watching SEGA CD FMV game cutscenes).

 

It'll be interesting to see how guests react to this one, especially fans of the franchise, as the ride building seems to promise so much, but ultimately deliver so little. It's one of the few massively successful contemporary franchises that actually belongs to Universal and this is the best they could do? Maybe a stunt show would have been more exhilarating. The whole ride concept seems fatally flawed from the outset. Like I wrote the other day, what's fast and furious about riding a bus? (damn it, where was a Speed ride 20yrs ago when we needed it? :)). 

 

Interesting that they decided not to go 3D for the Florida version.

 

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Finally, they've also announced that there will be a Stranger Things maze at Halloween Horror Nights this year. I'm not the biggest fan of the Halloween stuff (at least not viewing from a distance, I did enjoy visiting) but this is one that I'd be interested in seeing.

 

Are they also starting Horror Nights even earlier this year, or did I mistake that with hearing that Disney were going to be starting Halloween stuff even earlier than last year? I must admit, since I can't go to these places frequently I would like to be there when there isn't some kind of major thematic overlay going on, and Halloween - particularly at Universal - seems to be the most intrusive with so much stuff littering the streets of the park throughout the day even though it doesn't get used until night time. Maybe it's also because we don't really do Halloween in the UK like you do in the US, plus walking through mazes with random people jumping out at me has never sounded particlarly exciting. 

 

The first time I went to Disneyland (2000 I think) it was November and there was nice Christmas theming on Main St, and that was pleasant enough, and I would like to go back around then to see the Nightmare overlay on the mansion which did not exist at the time. Generally Disney's park theming seems to be more decorative in the fall and winter seasons rather than Universal's all out takeover, and I prefer the Disney approach personally, and I do kind of like that they leave the mansion alone in Florida since, as you pointed out to me once, it makes more sense given more international guests flock to Florida than Anaheim and might only get to experience these places once (so better to not deviate too much and rob visitors of the general day to day park atmosphere and ride experiences). 

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9 hours ago, Angry the Clown said:

 

I personally think it would be smarter to put Nintendo in a new park, or at the very least in a park that isn't the "studios" park, one because it has no real place in a movie/tv themed park, and two putting it elsewhere (especially in a brand new park) surely allows greater room for future expansion.

 

Oh I agree. I would much rather see it in a new park where they could possibly make it bigger to start with and have room for expansion. It just seemed like it going into Studios was a lock with that leaked “blueprint” and a third park seeming a long ways off. Perhaps the Studios plan was an option if they didn’t get the legal stuff out of the way with the new park, but plans for park 3 are further along than we think.

 

I do also think that people can get a little hung up over what the overarching theme of a park is though. Most theme parks, including Disneyland, don’t have one single theme, but are large parks with themed lands. These parks even have a history of simply creating new lands when an attraction doesn’t really fit one of their existing lands (Critter Country, New Orleans Square, Toon Town).

 

The parks that have had these singular themes have always struggled to maintain it once any expansion happens, even ones which are a broad as “movies and television” or “Animals”. 

 

People also have a tough time of letting go when it’s clear the theme isn’t working anymore. The worst example of this is California Adventure. That park was built with the misguided mission to give people a taste of California without having to visit the rest of California. The original park fit that all fairly well, but they obviously started to ignore this as soon as they realized people don’t really care about visiting a fake farm and watching movies about wine. They had to start putting new attractions in to try and lure people to the park and it’s harder to keep with a theme when that is the new mandate. Sure, you could make cases for Bugs Land, and Tower of Terror, but they weren’t really about California. Toy Story Mania is themed to the midway that it was built in, but that’s about it and I’m not too sure how Monsters Inc fits. 

 

Once the big rebuild was started and we got Little Mermaid and Cars, any relation to this being about California should have been eradicated. This is now Disney Adventure Park In California instead of Disney Adventure Park About California. Yet people still question how Marvel, Cars and Pixar fits the California theme. They don’t and the park is better for it. 

 

I’ve seen suggested that they should theme the third park at Universal to Dreamworks animation. While this may seem like a good, and fairly broad, idea at first, and may be spectacular at opening, I think it would just limit what they can do with it in the future. You could just as easily build a park with Shrek, Kung Fu Panda and Madagascar lands, but leave it open to put Nintendo, LOTR, or more Potter there if need be. Not to mention, the Illuminations animated movies which aren’t Dreamworks. 

 

Two parks that do this well, are Universal’s own IOA and DisneySea. Both appear to have an overarching theme to them of water, adventure and discovery, but really you can make just about anything fit in them. IOA has the Port of Entry which is themed to nautical exploration, and then once you leave, it’s simply that each land is on its own island. You can put anything in there and it works.

 

DisneySea is even better at this. It has different ports for the lands, but they are all very different and don’t really need to fit any one theme to work in the park. Yet they all seem to work well together, just like at Disneyland. 

 

Whatever the third (technically fourth) gate at Universal ends up being, I hope they go the IOA route and give themselves the flexibility to use whatever properties they want. 

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11 hours ago, Graeme said:

 

Oh I agree. I would much rather see it in a new park where they could possibly make it bigger to start with and have room for expansion. It just seemed like it going into Studios was a lock with that leaked “blueprint” and a third park seeming a long ways off. Perhaps the Studios plan was an option if they didn’t get the legal stuff out of the way with the new park, but plans for park 3 are further along than we think.

 

 

Yes, if it is indeed true that Nintendo would move to the new park you'd have to assume that having it at Universal was plan B should they not have been able to obtain the new land in time (rumours had suggested it was indeed looking destined for a new park since February). What will be interesting is the timeline for all this as I think Nintendo was supposed to be ready by 2021 to draw some attention away from Magic Kingdom's 50th and some new WDW attractions, and 2021 seems an unlikely date to have a whole new park and shopping district ready given that they have only just obtained ownership of the land, although having said that (correct me if I am wrong) I think ground broke on IOA in 1997 following its announcement two years earlier, and then it opened in 1999, so I guess it depends how prepared they are to move forward and how long they might have known they were on course to win the legal wrangle over the land.  

 

I think, as you might have been the one to point out in the past yourself, Disney seem to announce stuff shortly after the approval stage, leading to those agonising waits for construction to even begin (let alone be finished), while these days Universal seem to announce things much closer to the time they are ready to break ground making it feel like a much shorter wait so, again, it will be really interesting to see how prepared they are for this project. Incidentally, I think Universal's approach is the better of the two, as Disney's early announcements almost always leads to disappointment as we see budget changes whittle down what might have been teased in concept art. Universal seem to let all that happen behind closed doors so we never really see what might have been.

 

Some rumours suggest Nintendoland could go to the new park, but a Pokemon land would take the place of the KidZone at the Studios. That'd certainly be less of a stretch than having a broader Nintendo presence there since Pokemon had its cartoon show, and perhaps more importantly there's the upcoming Detective Pikachu movie which Universal will be releasing (I've accidentally stumbled upon them filming that movie twice in London earlier this year and have seen lots of fun little vehicles that are part of the city where Pokemon and humans apparently live side by side. That's a pretty good set up for a theme park area or attraction right there).

 

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I do also think that people can get a little hung up over what the overarching theme of a park is though. Most theme parks, including Disneyland, don’t have one single theme, but are large parks with themed lands. These parks even have a history of simply creating new lands when an attraction doesn’t really fit one of their existing lands (Critter Country, New Orleans Square, Toon Town).

 

The parks that have had these singular themes have always struggled to maintain it once any expansion happens, even ones which are a broad as “movies and television” or “Animals”. 

 

Right. I'm being a little broad with my use of the term I think. I mean, to me Disneyland and Magic Kingdom is the land of many lands, MGM/Hollywood Studios is the movie/tv park, Animal Kingdom is a wildlife and environment kind of thing, EPCOT is its own unique vision of the world as it was, as it is today, and as it could be in future (at least that's what it should be damn it), Universal is movies/tv and Islands of Adventure is again a land of many lands, but it's the "islands" thing that ties that together, so I guess is what I mean by a park mission statement is how will it be defined by its design/layout and ambience to set it apart from Universal and IOA, even though I fully expect it to be another land of many lands type park (which is fine, and what it should be).


 

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People also have a tough time of letting go when it’s clear the theme isn’t working anymore. The worst example of this is California Adventure. That park was built with the misguided mission to give people a taste of California without having to visit the rest of California. The original park fit that all fairly well, but they obviously started to ignore this as soon as they realized people don’t really care about visiting a fake farm and watching movies about wine. They had to start putting new attractions in to try and lure people to the park and it’s harder to keep with a theme when that is the new mandate. Sure, you could make cases for Bugs Land, and Tower of Terror, but they weren’t really about California. Toy Story Mania is themed to the midway that it was built in, but that’s about it and I’m not too sure how Monsters Inc fits. 

 

Once the big rebuild was started and we got Little Mermaid and Cars, any relation to this being about California should have been eradicated. This is now Disney Adventure Park In California instead of Disney Adventure Park About California. Yet people still question how Marvel, Cars and Pixar fits the California theme. They don’t and the park is better for it. 

 

 

 

 

I think the only ones who had a hard time letting go of the DCA theme were the execs at Disney being reluctant to spend money on fixing it sooner than they did. :) That park was a real oddity. I went there in its initial guise in either 2001 or 2002 (or both, I forget) and while I enjoyed Grizzly River Run and Soarin, the whole concept baffled me as even as a love letter to California it didn't really work. It's a spectacular misfire and arguably Eisner's greatest folly when it comes to his tenure and the theme parks. For park fans I think it is easier to embrace the changes at California Adventure because nobody had any real love for what it used to be, so there's less of an emotional connection to things being changed, plus if things fans loved get replaced with something that is as good, or ideally better than what was there before, it's an easier pill to swallow over time (true of attractions at any of these places, of course). I agree the name should have gone years ago. 

 

The pier always bugged me at DCA. It was an attractive area and I enjoyed the coaster there a lot, but re-creating pier attractions, precisely the thing Walt Disney wanted Disneyland to get the hell away from and as a result, the kind of thing Disney park guests do not expect to be paying for, always struck me as odd. The upcoming Pixar overlay doesn't look as if it will do it any favours either, but then I think (with the obvious exception of Radiator Springs) Disney have utterly blown the use of Pixar IP throughout all of their parks with relatively cheap retrofits (Monsters Inc and now the Pier) and the underwhelming Toy Story land clones we're seeing around the world right now. From a design perspective I think the Hollywood Studios Toy Story Land is a mistake, particularly if it's true about how much it has cost. You're getting a new entrance into Midway Mania, and a short family coaster with a huge footprint. The most successful thing driving traffic towards it will continue to be the ride that's been there for a decade already, and even with another movie on the way Toy Story is not really a franchise that could ensure that land stays fresh with new content over time. 

 

 

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I’ve seen suggested that they should theme the third park at Universal to Dreamworks animation. While this may seem like a good, and fairly broad, idea at first, and may be spectacular at opening, I think it would just limit what they can do with it in the future. You could just as easily build a park with Shrek, Kung Fu Panda and Madagascar lands, but leave it open to put Nintendo, LOTR, or more Potter there if need be. Not to mention, the Illuminations animated movies which aren’t Dreamworks. 

 

I'd be amazed if Dreamworks animation IP's were genuinely beloved enough to carry the weight of an entire park. This is definitely going to be an IOA style park, which again is absolutely fine and is what's best for Universal given the assets available to them. I'm surprised the Lost Continent is still hanging on over at IOA as the one IP-less area. I'd have thought it would have been marked for re-theming a long time ago (logically you'd think it would go to make room for Potter expansion. I think they should look to keeping Potter at the Studios and IOA either way at this point, rather than stretching it out to yet another park. LOTR would be a logical draw for fantasy at the new park, if such rumours are true). 

 

It's interesting hearing elsewhere that a Secret Life of Pets dark ride could end up at the new park, as that's another one like Nintendoland that was thought to be on the drawing board at Universal Studios for a while (though unlike Nintendo, it never went beyond rumour stage). If they have an animation themed land full of Dreamworks and illumination stuff then I certainly think a How to Train Your Dragon ride would be fun to see.

 

This is all quite exciting as the third park may actually help Universal better define what each park has to offer since it will allow them to spread things about a bit more. If Dreamworks and Ilumination properties move over to the new place then it's probably fair to say they will move out of the Studios (Shrek 4D's days have supposedly been numbered for a while, and Minions is a retrofit of Funtastic World so they might want to do something else with that space, especially since the Fallon ride is quite similar in design, though I suspect the Fallon ride to be replaced within five years too). 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Angry the Clown said:

Right. I'm being a little broad with my use of the term I think. I mean, to me Disneyland and Magic Kingdom is the land of many lands,

 

Honestly my post was not directed at you and your comments. They were just the launch point for me to rant about people complaining about theme park themes. I still see/hear people complain about how all the new stuff in DCA isn’t themed to California, when that was obviously forgotten about long ago. Or how Avatar isn’t about animals, and how Epcot is being destroyed (which is pretty much true), while at the same time asking what theme a new park should have and forgetting that Disneyland doesn’t have one single theme. 

 

With that said though, if a Park does have an overarching theme, I do think they should try and stick to it. There can be some leeway given, like with Avatar, and when the Indy at Animal Kingdom rumours were swirling I would be fine with a South America themed land with and Indy ride, but would not have been OK with and Indy themed land. 

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It's funny people complain about Avatar not being about animals. Where does Expedition Everest fit in with that outlook? I ultimately came to feel that Avatar is a comfortable fit for Animal Kingdom as at it's heart Cameron conceived that universe out of his love of the environment and ecology, which is surely what AK broadly embraces, and it has proved hugely successful which can only be good news. I'm not against the rumour of giving Indiana Jones a home in that park either, provided it was integrated in such a way as to reference an actual place and culture (as you say, South America would seem a logical fit to compliment the Africa and Asia sections of the park), which is surely would be. Animal Kingdom seems hampered by its name if anything as I guess the name might define it as something in particular in the minds of some fans, but it seems to actually deliver a good deal more than animals once you're in the park (true even before Pandora existed). 

 

EPCOT itself I think will always be unique so long as it maintains that juxtaposition of Futureworld and World Showcase. I'm a dark ride fan so of course I mourn the loss of Horizons and World of Motion. The former deserves a new incarnation as combined with Spaceship Earth I always felt it personified EPCOT on its broadest scale, but that broad scale actually makes EPCOT just as open to variety as some of the other parks, I think it just commands more care, imagination and attention from the people with the money and the imagineers in order to re-discover the right balance for modern guest expectations. I think it frustrates me because EPCOT has so much potential because it cannot be easily defined.  

 

I need to see what happens to Futureworld long term. I've never taken huge issue with characters and IP's finding their way into EPCOT. Frozen does seem somewhat shoehorned into Norway and might have perhaps been a better fit for Fantasyland, but it's popular and drives people to the park, so that's a good thing, and it replaces a pleasant but not beloved attraction. Ratatouille in Paris seems obvious, and will be very popular. Guardians... well... the ride sounds underwhelming and I fear Universal's Potter coaster could embasass it in the battle for family friendly coasters, but only time will tell. Disney and James Gunn swear it will feel relevant to the park, so we'll have to wait and see on that front too. I genuinely think if you simply have Starlord put on a cassette tape and play the old Universe of Energy song many nostalgic park fans will forgive and forget. They can be that easily won over. :)  Imagination is a weird one though. Disney and guests clearly still love and value Figment's presence in the park (certainly on the merchandise!), but there's no drive to actually do him justice with a decent ride again. Then there's the question of what happens to the Wonders of Life pavilion. Personally that's where I'd stick a Horizons 2.0, but I like to daydream.... and I'm not in charge. :D

 

You know what actually kind of bugs me? Star Wars Land being attached to Disneyland, purely because that's the park's first land entirely dedicated to one dominant thing which puts it at odds with everything else in the park. To me it would have been better at DCA, but maybe they didn't have the real estate.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Angry the Clown said:

 

It's funny people complain about Avatar not being about animals. Where does Expedition Everest fit in with that outlook? 

 

 

Oh, I’ve seen complaints about Everest too. I think it’s perfectly acceptable as it’s well themed to fit the Asia area of the park and is about an encounter with a mythical creature. Mythical creatures has always supposed to have been part of AK, so I don’t really see all that much to complain about. Well, I’ll complain about the Yeti not working!!!

 

Anyone who has been to AK knows that nature and conservation is as much a part of the park as animals. 

 

It’s funny how the names of their parks have caused such issues. California Adventure, Disney Studios, Animal Kingdom, and even EPCOT have all caused messaging issues over the years. 

 

I suppose Universal had plenty of issues when they were trying to call the Florida resort the Universal Escape. 

 

2 hours ago, Angry the Clown said:

You know what actually kind of bugs me? Star Wars Land being attached to Disneyland

 

I understand why it bugs some people, but it doesn’t bug me enough to care. DCA would have been better (but it’s not California!) but I’m sure they had their eyes on building Marvel stuff at the same time. I would much prefer having Star Wars at DL and Marvel at DCA.

 

I’m glad that they decided to build it where they did though instead of taking over Toon Town as rumoured. That was a large part of the park that wasn’t being used, the rock work appears to blend well with frontier land, and the transition from Critter Country and the far side of Fantasyland looks like it would work better than the back of Fantasyland (assuming it would have used the same entrance as Toon Town. 

 

The only thing that would bug me would be if they decide to build a third park in Anaheim in the near future where it would have been a better fit. 

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9 hours ago, Graeme said:

...the rock work appears to blend well with frontier land, and the transition from Critter Country and the far side of Fantasyland looks like it would work better than the back of Fantasyland (assuming it would have used the same entrance as Toon Town. 

 

I think that's what saves it, absolutely. It's clearly something the imagineers were conscious of and as a consequence it's good that it's more of a hard transition where you have tunnels beneath the rail line at Critter Country and Frontier Land leading you through and into Galaxy's Edge, rather than a more seamless transition that you'd have walking from Adventureland into and into New Orleans Sq...etc. It doesn't sound like you will even be able to see GA activity when standing on the side of the tunnel in Critter Country or Frontierland either, but instead will see rocks that, once you go through the tunnel, will guide you round corners and then reveal the land to you. They seem to be keeping this illusion in Florida too looking at the construction of the tunnel going from Grand Avenue into Galaxy's Edge (and it's going to be a tunnel transition from Toy Story Land into Star Wars as well).

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Just traveling back from the London Marathon Expo ahead of the event itself on Sunday and Disney had a booth there about all their run events. I’d be very tempted to time my eventual visit with one of those in future. Was nice to see all their 2017 event medals on display.

 

I’d really have to think hard on how I might adjust to running in that kind of humidity, especially if I did the WDW marathon (even a half in Florida humidity might be a shock to my British system. Bad enough having trained in cold, rain and snow for the last four months and finding myself facin very hot weather on home turf this coming weekend).

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49 minutes ago, Angry the Clown said:

Just traveling back from the London Marathon Expo ahead of the event itself on Sunday and Disney had a booth there about all their run events. I’d be very tempted to time my eventual visit with one of those in future. Was nice to see all their 2017 event medals on display.

 

I’d really have to think hard on how I might adjust to running in that kind of humidity, especially if I did the WDW marathon (even a half in Florida humidity might be a shock to my British system. Bad enough having trained in cold, rain and snow for the last four months and finding myself facin very hot weather on home turf this coming weekend).

 

Dopey challenge! Dopey challenge!

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46 minutes ago, Mark E said:

 

Dopey challenge! Dopey challenge!

 

A guy next to me was telling his friend about that. They had the medals on display too. Tell you what. If I survive Sunday then in a few years I’ll do it if you will. 😀

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