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Angry the Clown

CES 2018: That TV/Projector/Receiver/SexRobot you just bought is obsolete.

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Apparently Sony has made product registrations for a Z9F (ZF9), and some are claiming that 8k prototype would in fact come to market at the end of 2018. With Samsung promising their set for this year, it would not be a shock to see Sony getting something out to compete. That would sync up with the ZD timetable too where it was revealed as a prototype ahead of a fall/winter consumer release (the ZD if memory serves has a minor reveal at CES before an actual consumer unveiling at IFA). It would be preferable, I feel, if 85+ inch models were 8k like the prototype shown, while 75" and 65," assuming they even make a ZD9 successor in those sizes again, remained 4k to keep the costs relatively reasonable. If a 4k successor simply had more dimming zones than the existing set, and minimum 4000 nits it would instantly be THE TV to own in my opinion.  

 

It's possible they might only make a ZD successor in obscene sizes and defer to their OLEDs for 65 and 77" requests. That'd be a shame. 

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I can understand companies wanting to beat each other to the punch and it being a huge pissing contest, but other than that what's the point of releasing\buying an 8K set in 2018? Will there be any 8K content? We barely have any 4K TV channels as it is, is there a new 8K format coming for movies? Am I missing something?

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The ZD was shown off as the “Master Back Light Drive” tech demo at CES and then in the summer had the official launch as a shipping product. No updates on any of the other Sony product lines makes me think they are waiting on the X1 Ultimate to be ready to update the rest of the line.

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I believe the Japanese market is going to be offered 8k and/or HFR 4k broadcasts of the Tokyo 2020 games, but right now the only markets for 8k are for mastering cinema and photography; Dell has that ludicrous monitor out already and no doubt people want physical hardware to iron out the current challenges in driving it.

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Well, the X1U chip's express purpose seems to be to drive an 8k display and provide appropriate upscaling and image processing to that resolution...etc, so it's highly unlikely it would ever extend to any other displays apart from their highest end, and largest sized, FALD LED 'Z' sets. 8k panels wouldn't make much sense right now below 85 inches. IF they did decide to update 65 and 75 inch 4k models in the Z range though, they'd still hopefully look to update the backlight drive by increasing the number of dimming zones and upping the peak brightness. 

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48 minutes ago, kelley said:

The ZD was shown off as the “Master Back Light Drive” tech demo at CES and then in the summer had the official launch as a shipping product. No updates on any of the other Sony product lines makes me think they are waiting on the X1 Ultimate to be ready to update the rest of the line.

 

Well, the X1U chip's express purpose seems to be to drive an 8k display and provide appropriate upscaling and image processing to that resolution...etc, so it's highly unlikely it would ever extend to any other displays apart from their highest end, and largest sized, FALD LED 'Z' sets. 8k panels wouldn't make much sense right now below 85 inches. IF they did decide to update 65 and 75 inch 4k models in the Z range though, they'd still hopefully look to update the backlight drive by increasing the number of dimming zones and upping the peak brightness. 

 

23 minutes ago, iainl said:

I believe the Japanese market is going to be offered 8k and/or HFR 4k broadcasts of the Tokyo 2020 games, but right now the only markets for 8k are for mastering cinema and photography; Dell has that ludicrous monitor out already and no doubt people want physical hardware to iron out the current challenges in driving it.

 

I think the argument for 8k right now is on obscene sized displays 85" and up out of desire to reduce visible pixel structure, more than actual availability of 8k content. It doesn't seem like a coincidence that Sony, Samsung and LG all had 8k demos that were 85 inches. There's no 8k mastering even for cinema at the moment as far as I'm aware. Film scanning absolutely, but mastering, no. Some venues twin stack 4k projectors to reduce visible pixel structure and double the lumens, but they are still using 2k and 4k DCPs. There's honestly no need for an 8k deliverable format for movies. 

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Thanks - I was thinking of the scanning; didn't occur to me that you wouldn't go further than that, but the space requirements must be OBSCENE.

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Yes. Guardians vol2 was mostly shot in 8k if memory serves, but nevertheless finished in 2k for a variety of reasons. There's a lot to be said for downsampling from higher resolution capture. I think 8k will have its place for live broadcast. Once your mix 4k and 8k resolutions with high frame rates then we really start to enter another world, so unless that shift to high frame rates properly happens for movies, our eyes will find it difficult to discern such leaps in resolution with 24fps content, so 2k and 4k will continue to be the norm at the delivery level even though film gets scanned at 6k, 8k and higher, and some digital cameras capture at 6k+. There are lots of reasons why it makes sense to still finish and deliver in 4k and 2k.

 

I honestly wish 'k' had no place in consumer marketing as it's not really something the public needs to concern themselves with, but sadly it results in some people throwing hissy fits and calling out "fake" UHD titles for being upscales (which is proven to be daft since some of the most praised discs come from 2k finishes). 8k for huge TVs does make sense though to reduce the pixel structure as I say though. Below 85" I'd hope manufacturers focus on trying to get 4k and HDR perfected first.

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If there's no 930e replacement this year, just the 900f, then I'd consider that a good thing since the 900f is FALD based and, unlike last year, now has the X1 Xtreme and Dolby Vision. The 940e was FALD based, but may have been struck off the lineup this year to incorporate it into the 900 range for 75"+ sizes (quite likely the 75"+ size 900f models will have more dimming zones than the 65" and smaller models). If Sony are indeed streamlining their lineup I'd consider that a good thing. 

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Soooo, there are further rumours of ZD9 replacements making their debut at IFA later this year. Again this would synch it nicely with the ZD since IFA is when it received its formal consumer announcement in the past. Allegedly, the specs below are for the 65" and 75" models and if true, to my delight, they match up with what I'd hope a ZD sucessor would be (4k, with 4000nits).

 

Quote

KD-75ZF9 
KD-65ZF9 

UHD
• MediaTek 5597
• Android 8.0 Oreo, 
• MVA panel,(RGB Vertical Stripe)
• 120/100Hz, 
• FALD, WLED
• Brightness 4000cd/m2,
• Dolby Vision, HDR10, HLG,
• Google Assistant voice function,
• Twin DVB-T/T2/S/S2/C/C2 tuner 
• UPnP (DLNA) media gateway function, 
• NTFS management via USB and MKV, 
• NFC / Bluetooth compatibility associated with the Screen Mirroring function to transfer very easily and very quickly a photo, video or music from a device suitable for TV screen or HP 
• Wi-Fi, Miracast and MHL 3.0 compatibility 
• HDCP 2.2 certification 
• HEVC compatibility up to 2160p/60 
• Four HDMI 2.0b inputs

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2344698&d=15

 

 

Honestly, if that is accurate, and if the set increases the number of zones to improve upon what is already a minimal amount of blooming on the ZD, then it truly would be THE 4k TV to own. I never imagined 4000nit TVs being a reality quite so soon, but imagine it... No more tone mapping woes with movies. No more worrying about whether a disc is HDR10, DV, or HDR10+. None of it would matter anymore as with 4000nits being the max standard movies are being mastered to for the home right now, the TV would be able to render the full degree of dynamic range without having to tone map (the only 10,000nit content I can think of right now is GT Sport). Heaven!

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I was wondering why the X1 Ultimate might be useful in a 4k panel like the ZD's successor given how Sony's boast about it was chiefly that it was able to drive an 8k display, but this video goes into more detail about its other processing capabilities. In the clip below they have both OLED and LCD 4K prototypes using the X1 Ultimate chipset:

 

 

 

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