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Magness

Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread

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5 minutes ago, Angel P said:

I have a question that might be easily answered by you guys. When Tony’s video message is played for Pepper and the others, did he record that when expected to die before Danvers’ rescues him and Nebula?  If so, did that recording end with him saying “I love you 3000”?  Does that make sense?

 

I think they made this confusing.  Because they start by playing what seemed to be his recording from the ship.  Then they transitioned into what was obviously recorded AFTER the Avengers asked for help with time travel.  So it was an assemblage of two different monologs, which I think doesn't make sense.  I've only seen the movie once so maybe I'm wrong.  But I think it was two different monologs, 5 years apart, during his wake speech.

 

I would not be surprised if they (Russos) stole lines from his ship recording because they liked them so much to use in this speech, but didn't intend for it to be perceived as being from the ship.  But it was actually from the ship.  Thus my perception that there are two assembled monologs.

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Tony was distraught and emaciated on the ship with that first recording.  He was hopeful and healthy in his funeral recording.  I don't remember him looking different at any time during the second recording.

 

He could have just been repeating what he said on the ship knowing those lines he said were too good to go to waste.

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7 minutes ago, Eldorado said:

I don't remember him looking different at any time during the second recording.

I think I got it!  They used part of each recording in the TRAILER.  They made me think the "Part of the journey is the end" was part of his ship monolog.  But was it?  Does my perception stem from the fact that they used both monologs to cut the trailer, which visually only showed him in space.  I think I might be onto something here.

 

Again, without having watched twice.

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6 hours ago, Angry the Clown said:

Joey will know. Joey knows ALL. 

 

 

He recorded it before they went on the Time Heist, he mentions it during the recording.

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Because nothing rarely ever happens without some meaning, Cassie Lang suddenly being a little older then probably a 5 year jump, and Harley Keener being at the funeral, new Avengers? That clanging noise, rather then being a throwback, could be coming from the garage he set him up with at the end of Iron Man 3. And rather then Jarvis, a Stark AI could be pretty awesome. Hopefully they don’t call him Iron Lad though. Probably crazy. 

 

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Do we still need to spoiler tag stuff or not...?

 

 

The Russo’s confirmed in an interview at EW that Old Man Cap lived in an alternate dimension and not the main story universe so that explains how him living till old age didn’t affect the main timeline. This of course opens up a ton of other questions but, mostly fun stuff that may be revealed in phase 4 :)

https://ew.com/movies/2019/04/30/avengers-endgame-russo-brothers-captain-america/

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So... What timeline will the upcoming Spider-man movie take place in?  Based on the trailers, I did not notice all of the characters looking 5 years older.  I would think we would notice a 5-year time jump for characters who were originally in high school...

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50% of the living universe dusted. His friends were probably part of the 50%. They are still in HS.

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1 hour ago, Magness said:

Do we still need to spoiler tag stuff or not...?

 

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The Russo’s confirmed in an interview at EW that Old Man Cap lived in an alternate dimension and not the main story universe so that explains how him living till old age didn’t affect the main timeline. This of course opens up a ton of other questions but, mostly fun stuff that may be revealed in phase 4 :)

https://ew.com/movies/2019/04/30/avengers-endgame-russo-brothers-captain-america/

 

Right, I had pretty much settled on that after our previous discussions.  They said you can't change the future by changing the past.  So it should be pretty plain that Capt wasn't in the current timeline.  Except they made it confusing by him being on a bench off to the side.  And without a suit (Don't they need the suit on to jump back?).  Glad to have that nailed down though.

 

Thor is a dick.  He stole the hammer from "other" Thor leaving that Thor to conduct Age of Ultron, Thor 3, etc... without his hammer, right?  That was the whole point of the conversation with the Sorceror Supreme.  It is immortal to fuck me for the benefit of your timeline.  I wonder what happened in the Avengers timeline where Loki stole back the Tesseract and disappeared.  It is really out of sight, out of mind I guess.  There are infinite timelines, and you just have to come to grips with the only timeline we care about is ours.

 

It is going to be a kick-ass extras package with this movie.

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I read somewhere that said all of Peter’s friends were dusted. I’m hoping that Spider-Man serves as something of an epilogue and they touch on a lot of these questions they have left open.

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I’m wondering now if Far From Home is meant to imply that this is Peter Parker in another dimension or something. Maybe the story takes place during the five-year dusting timeline?

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Spider-man Far From Home takes place immediately following End Game.   That's what I've read.  Which implies that his friends, that we know about, must have been snapped, to maintain their age and have it make sense that they're going back to school, while half of their classmates are now adults and in college or whatever.

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2 hours ago, foogledricks said:

 

Thor is a dick.  He stole the hammer from "other" Thor leaving that Thor to conduct Age of Ultron, Thor 3, etc... without his hammer, right?  That was the whole point of the conversation with the Sorceror Supreme.  It is immortal to fuck me for the benefit of your timeline.  I wonder what happened in the Avengers timeline where Loki stole back the Tesseract and disappeared.  It is really out of sight, out of mind I guess.  There are infinite timelines, and you just have to come to grips with the only timeline we care about is ours.

 

 

Cap returns Mjolnir and the Infinity Stones to the timelines they borrowed them from so this exact thing wouldn't happen to those timelines.

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26 minutes ago, MastaRedSnappa said:

 

Cap returns Mjolnir and the Infinity Stones to the timelines they borrowed them from so this exact thing wouldn't happen to those timelines.

I didn't realize that he brought Mjolnir.  Thor's like "shit, here it is, between the couch cushions.  I don't remember leaving it there, but whatever."

 

Of course, none of that helps the alternate timeline where Loki stole the Tesseract , which draws the question, if there are infinity timelines, when travelling back in time, how do you choose which timeline you want to go to?  Obviously, based on their conversation, they intended to return to the same timeline they stole the stones from and give them back.   So the timemachine must autoselect your last timeline.  And not , for example, the original unchanged timeline before you fucked it up.  And by going back to give back the stone, you in effect creating a third timeline.  Right?

 

Every blade of grass that hulk stomped on is a change.  That can't be undone.  Returning the stones doesn't erase all the other shit they did, no matter how small, it had a butterfly effect.  

 

Bottom-line when you time travel, you create a branch.  You have to.  So really, them going back to give back the stones still leaves all the people in all those branches fucked.  It just creates a new branch where they're not fucked.

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Was about to say, yes - Steve takes Mjolnir back with him. 

 

While a few of the digs seem seem a bit cruel, I liked that Thor’s grief was expressed through depression rather than rage. He tried being angry at the problem with the decapitation, and it solved nothing. Not, it turns out, even removing the threat of a repeat. But away from saving the world, the big old Viking had two main hobbies; hitting things with hammers and drinking beer. Lose the exercise and that sounds like a recipe for a gut. 

 

The salad comment from Freja sounded more like parental concern than ridicule to me. 

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Can someone please explain why Thor is so powerful.  Odin is so powerful.  valkyrie is so powerful.  Etc.  But the vast majority are relative weaklings.  They look no stronger than humans.

 

Is the explanation simply that there is always species disparity, just as there is with humans?  In the same way that there are super heroes on Earth, there are super heroes on Asgard, and also regular folk, just like Earth?  How much can the average Asgardian bench god damn it.  How long do they live.  And will they suffer on Earth a shorter life or weaker abilities?

 

In Thor 3, the Asgardians on the bridge looked like a bunch of frail weaklings.  Standing on the bridge, holding swords, waiting for the zombies to kill them.

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36 minutes ago, foogledricks said:

I didn't realize that he brought Mjolnir.  Thor's like "shit, here it is, between the couch cushions.  I don't remember leaving it there, but whatever."

 

Of course, none of that helps the alternate timeline where Loki stole the Tesseract , which draws the question, if there are infinity timelines, when travelling back in time, how do you choose which timeline you want to go to?  Obviously, based on their conversation, they intended to return to the same timeline they stole the stones from and give them back.   So the timemachine must autoselect your last timeline.  And not , for example, the original unchanged timeline before you fucked it up.  And by going back to give back the stone, you in effect creating a third timeline.  Right?

 

Every blade of grass that hulk stomped on is a change.  That can't be undone.  Returning the stones doesn't erase all the other shit they did, no matter how small, it had a butterfly effect.  

 

Bottom-line when you time travel, you create a branch.  You have to.  So really, them going back to give back the stones still leaves all the people in all those branches fucked.  It just creates a new branch where they're not fucked.

 

I think you just have to look at it from the main timeline's perspective. Cap returns the Infinity Stones and Mjolnir to their respective timelines so from the main timeline's perspective, they didn't screw those respective timelines. But like you said, there's a butterfly effect to them even going to those timelines and any action they take there can ripple out like a pebble hitting the water in a pond. Cap simply saying "hail Hydra" in the elevator could cause those Hydra agents to think that Cap is on their side and they could reveal themselves at an earlier point to that timeline's Cap so maybe the events of Winter Soldier don't happen the same. Once you get beyond the surface of time travel as a plot device, the holes become bigger and more numerous until it collapses on itself. I find it's best not to go too deep into the "logic" of time travel, the "physics" of superpowers, etc.

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1 hour ago, MastaRedSnappa said:

I find it's best not to go too deep into the "logic" of time travel, the "physics" of superpowers, etc.

Tell that to Joey's soul.

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11 hours ago, Romier S said:

It was pretty obvious Bucky knew. I told Sara that after the first viewing.

 

I thought it was deeper than that.  I thought he knew that he wasn't coming back, yes, and that he was going to be with Peggy.  But there was also that thread of who will become the next Captain America.  And that scene was about that particular handoff, almost as much as it was about revealing that Rogers is an old fart that lived his life.  And Bucky's gracious "Falcon's First" gesture acknowledged that choice and his understanding of it.  This of course is as much fan service as it is actually a character moment.  Because we all know that one of these two will be the next Captain America.  And this is the writer's telling US that too.  Even before the shield comes out.

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