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Chris F

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graphics stand up to DAoC and other recent MMORPGs?

 

You have little to worry about graphically with the game Chris. Its gorgeus but requires a monster of a PC to run. It is for the most part equal to, and at times surpasses Asherons Call 2 (which is a great compliment as AC2 is currrently the best looking MMO on the market).

 

As for whether you'll like the game or not ..again wait until the NDA is lifted. Should be within the next day or two. I'll be glad to expolund on my observations during my Beta testing.

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Here's some stuff on SWG I found. Original thread is here:

 

http://pub146.ezboard.com/fthesafehouseout...cID=12553.topic

 

Here's the post the guy made:

 

==========================================

 

Why SWG Will Lose Millions

 

Now, I'm just trying to help with this post. MMORPGs are as much of a

business as any other game, so think of this as an effort to save you some

money. Simply put, even ignoring the massive bugs in every game system, your

game is not up to par with the industry average.

 

I'm going to go through all the problems with SWG that I can think of, so

that maybe you can fix a few of them before release and keep your game alive

for longer than a month.

 

Immersiveness

 

99% of the world is, simply put, a randomly generated mess that lacks any

feeling. It's obvious, as soon as you leave a city, that no thought went

into the world whatsoever. In place of actual content, we have "random"

encounters constantly. Every 15 seconds you can be sure that a group of mobs

will spawn in front of you. Mobs have no life of their own; they're

generated just because the player is there, and it makes the game more like

Asteroids than an MMORPG.

 

Trying to trick players by having a random number generator do your work for

you is a poor, poor excuse for content. It will not fool anyone. There's a

feeling you get in a game world when you explore and find new things around

every turn... new structures, creatures, places with a purpose. Places

designed by a human for interaction with humans. Having the game randomly

place blobs of mobs everywhere will never, ever duplicate that feeling.

 

So right away, 99% of the game world is uninteresting. Yes you have nice

graphics for your terrain. Good job. But let me tell you something I read

while designing zones for a MUD some years back. In the MUD builder's

manual, it said "everything must have a point and a story" (paraphrased).

This is sage advice, not just for MUDs but for all games. In SWG, nothing

has a point or a story (except for missions, which have stories, but I'll

get to that).

 

You know what would have been the best thing for SWG? If you had FORGOTTEN

GRAPHICS and just designed a good game. A good game is good whether it's

text based or has the prettiest graphics in the world. The "oooh and ahh"

factor doesn't last for long. Take "blockbuster" movies as an example. Every

summer, movie makers spend billions of dollars cranking out big budget

movies. We all know the result: most of them suck. Hard. They're contrived,

with no story, no writing, nothing but pretty explosions. SWG is the

blockbuster movie of the MMOG world.

 

SWG needs more premanent features. I'm not talking about a battlefield or

theme park hidden 10,000 meters away between 9,999 meters of zero content.

I'm talking about giving the world life. Those random globs of bandits that

appear constantly when you're in the wilderness? Give some a permanent home.

Make an outpost, complete with scouts on the outer perimiter, campfires

inside and a boss in a building somewhere controlling it all. Make it

permanent and then it will mean something. Getting to the middle of it and

slaying the boss will mean something to a player. The player can say "I went

there, I did that, yeah baby." It gives players a sense of pride. Destroying

a camp that appears in front of you just like 500 others like it, with the

same 5 bandits stading around it, means nothing.

 

That's the key really, making a world that is meaningful. Every little bit

has to be special in some way. It has to be designed by human hands, and

when other humans see it and experience it, they'll appreciate it.

 

Other immersiveness things

 

-You can't jump in SWG, or swim. Instead, jumping is an emote. These two

things are the very basics of immersiveness in a 3D world. Players need to

feel like they can interact with their environment. In SWG, they can't. I'll

give you an example.

 

Every town is surrounded with these low walls with only a few openings in

them to get out. These walls are only knee high for even a short player.

They're very, very annoying, especially because you cannot jump over them.

They're like invisible barriers, walls in a pac-man game, that constantly

remind you that you are in a game, not real life. To be immersed, players

need to forget that as much as possible.

 

The walls were a bad design decision, but they wouldn't have been if the

fundamentals of a 3D world were included in SWG.

 

It's very troubling that the devs couldn't include something as basic as

jumping into their engine.

 

One way to look at a game is as a challenge that must be solved. Great games

provide freedom for the players to solve problems in as many ways possible.

Take away something as simple as jumping or swimming and you take away very

important ways that players feel out their environment.

 

-You can't attack most NPCs in cities. Being held accountable for your

actions is arguably the greatest strength of an MMORPG. In one sense,

players build up a reputation over time which adds another layer onto the

game world. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about actions

within the game world. You should be able to attack NPCs, even if they're so

powerful they'll kill you in one hit. Why? Because that makes the world more

real. It gives you the sense that every little thing you do is meaningful.

That friendly trainer will kick your ass if you attack him. It makes

everything more alive.

 

Missions

 

I know you wrote neat stories for some missions, and in a way, those stories

are the best thing about SWG. Some are genuinely funny.

 

But the fun of reading the mission details doesn't last, as they're just

another trip into the useless wilderness (or a trip to another city if it's

a deliver mission). After your first mission you realize that they're quite

mindless, and just a source of cash.

 

To decrease the immersion, there's a limited number of missions and they're

repeated. The solution? It's obvious, guys. If you had a history and story

for each planet, the solution would be there already. Missions would be a

way to delve deeper into that history and participate in it. You could add

progressive missions, where you complete one and get another, more difficult

mission, that gives you more story and involves you more deeply in the

planet's politics, story, whatever. (Yes, I know there's one progressive

mission in Jabba's palace. Big deal. You can't have something like that in

just one, or two, or 5 places inthe game, fellas. It has to be all over.)

 

Give players a chance to feel part of their world. You deliver a loaf of

bread to an old woman, and in doing so meet her grandson. He's in trouble

with the law, and needs you to help him get a message out of town. You

deliver the message and realize he's involved in the rebellion when you

reach the hideout. The people at the hideout ask you to help him escape from

the town. You help, but you have to kill a few Emperial troopers in doing

it. You become more trusted in the rebellion after that and are given a

mission to assassinate an Imperial General. And on, and on. There, I just

wrote a whole progressive mission for you. It's easy. SWG needs it.

 

Missions or quests are one of the best ways to get players deeply involved

in a game (in fact, most single player games are based on a single evolving

quest that the player must complete). Don't ignore their potential.

 

Combat

 

Like I said in the immersiveness section, there's no point in exploring. So

there's no point to combat. There's no goal. Nothing to drive the player on

to accomplish some great kill except for gathering bones and hides. Adding

loot wouldn't solve this. The only solution is giving content and context to

combat. Once again this boils down to making a more permanent world. Running

out into the wilderness and killing big_fat_mob_00 doesn't mean anything:

every player and his grandmother is going to have 500 big_fat_mobs generated

for them too every time they leave a city. There needs to be permanence in a

world for combat to mean anything.

 

Combat is awkward. There shouldn't be 2 different buttons for "attack" and

"stop attack". It should be one button that toggles on and off. You should

be able to change your target in combat. You should be able to hit escape

and clear your target whether you're under attack or not. You should be able

to sit while under attack (that's right, if something has aggro on you, you

can't sit or log out).

 

It's almost impossible for a group to have a working healer. Besides having

an impossible time trying to target people, the healer has to run back and

forth trying to locate the person he's trying to heal so that he's close

enough for it to work? You'll never have a good combat system because of

this; grouping will always be zerging.

 

Player Crafting

 

The very basic machine that's supposed to allow players to sell goods, the

bazaar, doesn't work. Why?

 

Because it has a 100 item limit. Combine that with the SEVEN DAY AUCTION

SYSTEM and you have 100 CDEF pistols being sold on a 7 day auction, and

bang, the market is useless for 7 days. Whether your item shows up or not in

a search seems random. Players that want to sell high end goods have

reverted to shouting "WTS uber rifles 5000 credits!" in the middle of town.

Not that there's anything wrong with people shouting to sell things; there

isn't, if they have no alternative. But if your game is designed with a

market system and people are still forced to go out and shout because the

market doesn't work, something is wrong.

 

I'm not going to go into the many flaws in the "economy" as people like to

call it. Plenty of people have done that already and I've already made

enough posts on it to be sick of it. Let's just say that the crafting system

is the best thing SWG has going for it. More thought seems to have been put

into it than anything else. When the game comes out it'll probably still be

the best thing about it, so they should make it so that the economy isn't

flooded with every kind of item within a week, making all that hard work

worthless. If the game came out today, that's what would happen.

 

End Game

 

SWG has no end game. There really isn't anything a player can aspire to

except becoming an overt and killing some other overts. The rate of

advancement is so fast that mastering your class is hardly part of the game.

 

You devs have said that maxxing out your class is only the beginning of the

game. Ok, where do we go from there? Battlefields? Is shooting people across

a battlefield supposed to hold my attention for years? The life of an MMORPG

should be years, unless you spent years in development so that player could

get bored with it in a month.

 

Is shooting other overts supposed to hold my attention for years? What,

exactly, IS supposed to keep me playing? Even as a beta tester after only a

few weeks, logging on is a chore. No, it's not the bugs. If you've noticed,

I haven't made one mention of bugs. My critique is all of the game as it is

when "working as intended".

 

Shooting the same random mobs that appear for me when I leave a city is not

a goal. Shooting people across a battlefield is not a goal. The game needs

goals that players can aspire to right out of the box.

 

In original EQ, players had killing a dragon someday as something to aspire

to, right out of the box. In DAoC, players had realm to realm combat, right

out of the box. What can SWG players aspire to? There's no permanent world

like there is in EQ, so players cannot have goals to conquer some mob or

place someday. There's no PvP reward system like DAoC, so players can't

aspire to becoming the greatest at PvP and having an in-game reward for it.

 

What, exactly, do players have to aspire to?

 

Keep in mind that this is coming from an experienced MMOG gamer. I've played

multiplayer games since there was nothing but text based MUDs. At this

point, like many 10+ year veterans of the industry, I can look at a game and

see right away where it will fail and where it will succeed. And I honestly

don't see SWG succeeding anywhere in the long run.

 

Hardcore Star Wars fans will play the game for a month, sure. But just

because it's star wars doesn't mean it will hold their attention despite all

its flaws. There are a LOT of Star Wars games out there. The hardcore Star

Wars fan has plenty to choose from. What will make him choose SWG over all

the others?

 

Game Stability

 

Now that I've talked about all the game systems as they would exist with no

bugs, I'll talk about the bugs.

 

When soemone points out the many, many massive bugs that plague every game

system in SWG, someone inevitably says, "You think this is bad? You should

have seen EQ when it first came out!"

 

Well, there's a difference. EQ was the pioneer in the 3D MMORPG industry.

They didn't have anyone to tell them what to do or how to do it. They didn't

know how to make a server handle that many people, or how to make sure the

graphics would work when there were 50 other players on screen. They had to

figure it all out on their own.

 

That was a long time ago. Not only has the industry made leaps and bounds

since then, but SWG actually has people from EQ working on their staff! They

aren't baby-faced college kids straight out of freshman year, these guys are

supposed to be the best of the best of MMORPG design veterans, gathered form

games like UO and EQ.

 

What happened guys? One of you must know how to set up a database so it

doesn't crash the server every 3 hours. One of you must have designed a

quest system at one time. Some of you helped design the most successful

MMORPGs out there. What happened? On top of all the things missing from the

game, don't any of you know how to set up a server so that it's stable?

 

The last successful MMORPG, DAoC, was stable throughout beta and shipped

stable. Why? Because it was a second generation MMOG, and they learned from

the past, and they made a stable gae like modern game designers should be

able to do.

 

That's all I can think of for now. If I had another couple hours I could

come up with a lot more.

 

Hey, it's not my millions of dollars that will be lost. It's not even my 50

dollars that will be lost, because I'm not buying the game. Thank god I was

in beta.

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Heres the reply I sent Brian, now that the NDA is lifted:

 

That exact same post was on the beta forums a few weeks ago and a good bit of what he said was totally on the mark. So let me share some comments as someone who has tested the game for many hours over the past three weeks and has sent over 45-50+ bug reports.

 

Quote:

99% of the world is, simply put, a randomly generated mess that lacks any feeling.

 

This was a very true statement 2-3 weeks ago when the random generation was all kinds of FUBAR and mobs would literally pop right in front of you or even AROUND you if you were standing still. This however is no longer as true as it used to be.

 

Yes, mobs are randomly generated in various locations. However, there are bases, there are scouts guarding those outposts and bases and more powerful "leaders" that defend those bases (which again are randomly generated but but are placed in a decently intelligent fashion so as to appear as though they belong there)

 

So I in a way agree and disagree with that statement. The part I do agree with is that the game needs far more static content to give the world a "lived in" feel. A combination of the random generation rule and static "boss" creatures would help in solidifying the game world IMO.

 

 

Quote:

There's a

feeling you get in a game world when you explore and find new things around every turn... new structures, creatures, places with a purpose. Places designed by a human for interaction with humans.

 

 

This is a statement I cant quite wrap my head around because if anything Star Wars Galaxies got right it is the player interaction. Cantina are BUSTLING with player interaction. A place created where humans can interact with other humans. As for exploration, in the 3 weeks I've played I've discovered Jabba's Palace, C3PO and R2's crashed escape pod, Ben Kenobi's Hut, The Pod Race stadium at Boonta Eve, The Krayt Dragon graveyard. There is more to see as well and these are all static locations (the game however still needs more!). Exploration and finding new areas to take in is not a problem, the lack of interesting encounters is. There is however an issue that does tie into that....

 

The big problem I see right now is the lack of vehicles in game. Finding these areas is rather difficult and requires a good bit of on-foot "huffing it" so to speak which does get rather old rather quickly since your character moves at the speed of a Hutt:).

 

Devs have commented that player cities will be #1 on the for implementation after launch but I do so wish vehicles would have been a higher priority or even better not been taken out of the game which seriously sapped a big part our what makes Star Wars, Star Wars.

 

Quote:

it said "everything must have a point and a story"

 

 

Agree completely with that statement and that is one of the ugliest issues with the game currently. The world lacks a strong story element. Its pretty much a standard MMO in that regard. You select your race, profession and "Level up". Even though the game is skill based its still pretty much a treadmill. Just a different type of treadmill is all.

I'm still waiting for that bucks this trend and creates an experience that does not require the player to "grind" his way to the top. Does every MMO have to be a time sink??

 

Quote:

SWG needs more premanent features.

 

 

Definitely agree with him there. Though I think he is being a tad exaggerative in claiming SWG has none of this type of content. The ability to put together a 20 man party and hunt huge Krayt Dragons and Rancors etc...etc..etc.. really helps in the "Damn I was there and I did that..." feeling he was talking about. Again I agree with some of his statements but at the same time hes really ignoring some of the key features in the game.

 

Quote:

You can't jump in SWG, or swim

 

 

Half true. Jump is just an emote but sure as hell can swim! In fact it has been a major source of frustration for the player community in beta as swimming take so damn long. With this recent patch they thankfully upped the speed at which your character swims.

 

 

 

Quote:

Every town is surrounded with these low walls with only a few openings in them to get out. These walls are only knee high for even a short player. They're very, very annoying, especially because you cannot jump over them.

 

 

Agreed! it seems silly as hell that you cant simply jump over something like that and it does pull you out of the world.

 

Quote:

You should be able to attack NPCs, even if they're so

powerful they'll kill you in one hit. Why? Because that makes the world more real. It gives you the sense that every little thing you do is meaningful. That friendly trainer will kick your ass if you attack him. It makes

everything more alive.

 

 

UGH! Cant disagree with that enough. All that breeds is a bunch of childish idiots in game that eventually "power-game" themselves to a point where they can kill the NPC's without fear or reprieve. All you see then is a bunch of people running around killing NPC's for the sake of boredom. I've seen it in countless MMO's and I dont think that will help player immersiveness at all.

 

Quote:

To decrease the immersion, there's a limited number of missions and they're repeated. The solution? It's obvious, guys. If you had a history and story for each planet, the solution would be there already. Missions would be a

way to delve deeper into that history and participate in it. You could add progressive missions, where you complete one and get another, more difficult mission, that gives you more story and involves you more deeply in the

planet's politics, story, whatever. (Yes, I know there's one progressive mission in Jabba's palace. Big deal. You can't have something like that in just one, or two, or 5 places inthe game, fellas. It has to be all over.)

 

Give players a chance to feel part of their world

 

 

Again, I COMPLETELY agree! Missions are really half-assed right now and are nothing more than a source of income that become a seriously TEDIOUS bore. There could be one hell of a story behind these things. Multi-legged missions that would really involve the player. So far the implementation of missions is absolutely horrid and the tweaks necessary to make it interesting are not being looked at.

 

I thought I'd never say this but Sony Online would do well to look at Anarchy Online's mission structure and incorporate deeper story elements above even that. Then they would have a seriously interesting mission game that could even provide some nice "end game" content.

 

Quote:

You should be able to sit while under attack (that's right, if something has aggro on you, you can't sit or log out).

 

Utter nonsense here. That whats called an exploit. BOO fucking HOO, I got attacked and now I cant cheat my way out of it by logging out and coming back in unscathed.

 

Quote:

It's almost impossible for a group to have a working healer. Besides having an impossible time trying to target people, the healer has to run back and forth trying to locate the person he's trying to heal so that he's close

enough for it to work?

 

 

Apparently he has never looked at the keymap section of the game. Here you can set a hotkey for every member of your party. Selecting them is as simple as hitting that hotkey. Some of these comments are now bordering on absolutely silly.

 

With the last patch Doctors are even more needed. Just read the comments in the post above mine to know why. The penalty for death and not "binding" or as they call it in the game "cloning" properly is right now..RIDICULOUS Requiring HOURS of healing time to recover your wounds. Its nonsense and thankfully being tweaked. Though this exemplifies the really rushed launch this game is seeing.

 

Quote:

So there's no point to combat. There's no goal. Nothing to drive the player on to accomplish some great kill except for gathering bones and hides....

 

 

...and leveling. This I agree with. Another day another treadmill. Let me reiterate, One fine day a developer will release an MMO that does not require the player to ride the mill to advance. *sigh*

 

Quote:

The very basic machine that's supposed to allow players to sell goods, the bazaar, doesn't work. Why?

 

 

Good question. It still (as of yesterday) doesn't work and we're 8 days away from launch. Absolutely ridiculous.

 

Quote:

The rate of advancement is so fast that mastering your class is hardly part of the game.

 

 

The rate of advancement has been completely changed as of last patch. Creatures give far less XP and working your way up the skill tree takes quite a bit longer as encounters are far more difficult. It helps that the consider system is now working semi-properly(though again its still buggy) as well .

 

I do agree to an extent, you can theoretically move up quickly but this is one area thats greatly improved.

 

Quote:

Battlefields? Is shooting people across

a battlefield supposed to hold my attention for years?

 

 

Battlefields are horribly buggy right now and the hope that they will be fixed for launch is slim:(. The faction system is still fubar and honestly good luck with the dull PVP off the bat. This will take months to tweak to become even remotely enjoyable.

 

Quote:

Well, there's a difference. EQ was the pioneer in the 3D MMORPG industry.

 

It was also a buggy mess that *required* you to be a power-gamer to enjoy it. You had to pour your life into the game to get to the highest levels and those dragon encounters he talked about. The death penalty in EQ was also ridiculous as you had to do insane corpse runs just to recover your hard earned items. (thankfully this has changed)

 

Galaxies is not EQ in space. The goal of the game was to appeal to the casual *and* hardcore power-gamer. As of now its falling more toward 70% casual 30% hardcore. Hopefully over time they hit the midpoint. Again that time should be beta not launch.

 

Quote:

One of you must know how to set up a database so it

doesn't crash the server every 3 hours.

 

Thats why its called a Beta. Last time I checked we were not selected to participate in the beta to play for free. it was to test the game and report bugs. Servers crashed and downtime is expected here.

 

Now let me say that with only 7-8 days to go the server up time has improved greatly but I, in the bottom of my soul, do not see this being a smooth launch. I get the distinct feeling Sony Online has not prepared for the massive influx of players who will be logging in. Yes people say alot of shit but many will still purchase the game.

 

So in case you didn't notice. This game should not be launched in its current state. Its not ready. The content isnt there, the stability is getting there, and the fundamental game systems are still broken ( I wont even get into the joke of an economy). I will say I'm going to be buying the collectors edition because I want to have the box and extra artbook and what not before they disappear but I *will not* be activating my account until at least 3-4 months from now. I will not pay 15 dollars a month to play Beta 4, no thanks. I do however see a good bit of potential here is the game is improved to where it needs to be. I'll be happy to give it my all then.

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I'm still very interested in the game. I was very interested in EQ when I beta'd it oh so long ago, and although I don't play anymore, I still sometime miss the whole group MMORPG thing.

 

I'll probably pick it up, maybe not at launch, but within a month or so...

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After these comments from all of you I think I will wait a while to purchase Galaxies until some good patches come out. Hopefully, this will also fix a lot of the issues discussed here. I am however feeling better and better about my recent AO purchase...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok, I caved and bought Star Wars Galaxies (the Collectors Edition no less!) this weekend.

 

I spent most of the past few nights grouping up with Romier and his friends, and generally having a good time. On the first night, I got to see Mos Eisley, the cantina and a bantha! I was very excited. :D

 

I'm a Trandoshan maraksman, on his way to being a Bounty Hunter. My character name is Tzovuss and he's located on the Starsider Galaxy, if anyone else is playing.

 

All in all, I really like the game. Sure it's a lot like EQ in space, at least it feels that way to me, but there are enough differences that are keeping me interested with it. I like the skill trees, and how you improve in your class over time. I like the graphics, and I like the little details they have in the game. From ships flying overhead, to sound effects, to the architecture. It just feels "Star Wars" to me. The plains of Naboo are very nice, almost straight out of the movies.

 

Most of the missisons I've done are standard deliver this to Person A, blow up this "lair", etc. Not too exciting by yourself, but more fun with a group. Going out in hunting parties, not doing missions, is fun as well. And once I start doing the Rebel missions, and gaining faction points with them, I can join the Rebel Alliance. Which is my current plan.

 

I alos like the "Bazaar" system they have in place for trading and selling goods. It's a lot like Space Ebay. It's going to take me some time to get used to the armor and weapons systems in the game, as they're a bit different than EQ, but they seem cool.

 

One little point of coolness. Romier took me to the Cantina in Mos Eisley on my first night of playing, and I got a chance to see Wuher, Muftak and Figrin D'An and the band. It was all very exciting. :)

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Well, truth be told, I've had almost no problems with lag or connections quality, but I have experienced about 4 dropouts, and one case of lag that caused a group member to die. But thats about it.

 

It's about what I experienced when I first played EQ. It's not that bad at all, and those instances that did occur, did not affect me in any way, except for the death of my groupmate.

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Im currently on Corellia. Wanted to share some screens. No interface on these as they are sweeping beauty shots. Game is running at 1280X960 4Xaa and 8XAF (believe it or not my card runs the game faster the more AA I throw it, Dont ask cause I dont get it either). Framerate average for most of these screenies was between 15-29. Anyone that says this game lacks the detail seen in the E3 movie or any of that nonsense is simply not looking at the same game I am. Here they are:

 

SWG1

SWG2

SWG3

SWG4

SWG5

SWG6

SWG7

SWG8

SWG9

 

SWG7 is a pic of Chris Flynn (XBLRuffneck) and I getting ready to travel to Corellia last night.:D

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Dear Star Wars Galaxies,

 

Would you please give LCVG.com back its reviews and features editor please.

 

 

LOL! :lol::lol:

 

Not quite. Im working as I play I swear! This review will knock you on your ass believe me. Now if Cory would get his ass back from Florida (yes he went to Miami the crazy fool!) I can do the slave whip on him as well!

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