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My eBay / PayPal Rant


Magness
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/rant

 

Putting this thread here as I don't really know where else it would go... I'm not sure how many of you have come across this but, eBay /PayPal changed their policy about 2 months ago now and they are holding lots of transactions by default. This normally wouldn't be much of an issue except that they are holding them for 21 days minimum and will only release the holds with a positive feedback post on eBay for the item or FedEx/UPS tracking POD. I really don't like this personally as I rarely use UPS or FedEx anymore. I tend to go with the shipper that has the best price and best time to deliver depending ont he buyers location. I can't do that anymore as even the shipping costs from selling something on eBay are held.

 

In my case, I was selling old equipment off on eBay like a desktop PC and a camera system and some other odd items. Most of these sold and went for between $100 and $500 (depending on the items of course). Now, of the 6 items I've sold in the past 2 months 4 of these damn transactions have been held. None of these fell under the amounts or categories for "High Risk" items, my account is 9 years old now and I have a 100% positive feedback score. When I asked why these were being held they said it was completely random :eh I shipped all of these in a timely manner and most of the buyers left positive feedback after they received them but, a few never bothered to. A common issue on eBay but in this case, it now holds up my money :furious

 

The thing that really has me pissed now is my last one... The buyer (apparently aware of the new policy) has refused to leave feedback and repeatedly asked me to contact him via phone instead of eBay messaging for technical help on one of the items. I called him as a courtesy but, it wasn't really a technical issue: He wanted a discount off the item he purchased and a discounted price on another auction I had going at that same time. This guy was effectively trying to extort money/discounts from me in exchange for leaving feedback and "unlocking" my funds. I refused initially but, he then called me at my office - Fucking Unbelieveable. I notified eBay/PayPal but, I was informed that due to this taking place over the phone there was no record of it (there wouldn't be of course) and that contacting the buyer through any other means was a violation of the terms of service for eBay/PayPal - as if I was the one violating the terms here. PayPal also told me that this policy change was for the buyers protection so they would not be altering the release of funds policy for me regardless.

 

As you can imagine, I was already frustrated at this point but, then I used the eBay messaging system and told the buyer that I would not be willing to offer a discount for the item or a discount on the other auction and not to contact me via phone again. I supplied proof of delivery to PayPal including a scan of his signature but, they did not accept it as it was not FedEx or UPS (before I knew of that change too). Making things even worse, the buyer then opened a dispute through paypal for a refund of $150 off the item he purchased from me... So payPal put the full amount of the item's sale price on hold in my account. :bh This tied up the available funds I had from other sales on eBay that had already completed. and now PayPal will not release this hold until I resolve the dispute with this fucking guy.

 

So to wrap this one up (and further "vent")... This person buys an item from me on eBay, his payment is held through PayPal by default so I have to pay for the shipping out of my own account/available funds from other sales. The shipping carrier I used was not FedEx or UPS so PayPal won't accept POD despite the signature scan because it wasn't from an approved carrier. The buyer refuses to leave feedback on eBay unless I offer him some money but, without his feedback I don't have access to my funds for 3 weeks after shipping and delivery. I refuse and decide to wait out the 21 days to get my funds but, the buyer opens a dispute through PayPal and ties up the entire sale amount to extort some cash back from me. PayPal places the entire sale amount on hold out of my available balance - which is from other eBay sales and such - the buyers money is still itself being held?!?

 

So, per eBay/PayPal I have been "randomly" selected 4 out of 6 times now and had my funds held...? I should never ship items unless I use FedEx or UPS - even if they aren't the fastest option as Proof Of Delivery isn't really proof unless UPS or FedEx say so...? Buyers can apparently beat me till I cough up money in exchange for their feedback...? And even if I choose to wait it out, a buyer or PayPal can put my other auction payments on hold via a dispute so I have to hand over the money..?

 

WHAT THE FUCK?!?!

 

/rant

Edited by Magness
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Just wanted to post an addendum: This is just one guy after all is said and done. Most of my transactions went fine and have for years till now. The shipping stuff and even the "Random" holds are bad enough... But, my main problem is the power this gives to that "One Guy" over my entire account. He can lock up the funds he was supposed to have paid to me upon winning the auction for over a month. He can even lock up the funds from other auctions/sales. He can open a dispute for some cash back and restrict my ability to sell items until its resolved. And I'm the one that gets the Terms of Service notice despite the buyer openly violating the terms by requesting phone calls and other contact from me. Sigh...

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It IS a buyer scam and one of the PayPal reps I spoke with today (again) said they were even familiar with this one in particular... "Selling Feedback" I believe she said it's called. However, PayPal still wouldn't do anything about it. They will default to the Buyer for their "protection" and in this case, despite everyone (seemingly) knowing it's extortion and a scam they told me I would have to resolve the dispute before they would lift the account hold or release the funds from other auctions back to me.

 

In another ironic twist to this one, I now require the buyer to accept my refund offer before they will even close the dispute. :eh

 

I will never use eBay or PayPal again after this. As Lutter said, I can use Amazon.. Its too easy to switch to Amazon or one of the hundreds of other sites - theres no reason to put up with crap like this from eBay/PayPal - This from a 9 year customer too. Sigh...

Edited by Magness
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The thing that really has me pissed now is my last one... The buyer (apparently aware of the new policy) has refused to leave feedback and repeatedly asked me to contact him via phone instead of eBay messaging for technical help on one of the items. I called him as a courtesy but, it wasn't really a technical issue: He wanted a discount off the item he purchased and a discounted price on another auction I had going at that same time. This guy was effectively trying to extort money/discounts from me in exchange for leaving feedback and "unlocking" my funds. I refused initially but, he then called me at my office - Fucking Unbelieveable. I notified eBay/PayPal but, I was informed that due to this taking place over the phone there was no record of it (there wouldn't be of course) and that contacting the buyer through any other means was a violation of the terms of service for eBay/PayPal - as if I was the one violating the terms here.

 

Well, it sounds like you have an email from him requesting you to phone call him, so can't you at the very least report HIM for trying to get sellers to contact him via the phone? (Note; I know nothing about Ebay/Paypal, I'm just going off what you wrote here.)

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Not surprised. From the minute they went to the only-good-feedback-from-sellers system and the sometimes-holding-funds I knew it was no longer worth bothering.

 

I had a hold for a Wii during release-Christmas-season go awry and end up costing me $90 in overdraft fees (sudden hold on the paypal funds from a Wii sale put the paypal balance negative and then they tried to pull from my bank acct, and that didn't work, so they pulled from my CC company which was glad to clear the charge and charge me overlimit fees :bh ).

 

After that I got really skeptical of selling anything worth any reasonable amount of money on ebay.

 

Amazon all the way baby. I only hock some old PC equipment on ebay these days and other weird/non-amazon friendly stuff.

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Well, it sounds like you have an email from him requesting you to phone call him, so can't you at the very least report HIM for trying to get sellers to contact him via the phone? (Note; I know nothing about Ebay/Paypal, I'm just going off what you wrote here.)

 

This was my thinking too... But the managers I have spoken with said that if I did contact him via phone per his request then we were both in violation of the terms. Thereby they would not be able to use the violation to close the dispute. :(

 

Regardless of how this eventually gets resolved, as you have all said: I'll be using the Amazon marketplace from now on.

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O.k. so all this shit is finished now so I will post the final update I guess...

 

So after making the refund offer he requested, this guy then refused the refund <sigh> and requested half off the item instead - and some additional cables to be sent to him. I contacted PayPal again to ask how he can refuse his own refund offer and now try to extort more money from me and they said it was "at the buyers discretion". I pointed out that he requested it via the dispute console, it was noted in the dispute itself and everything but, they would not alter it.

 

At this point I pretty much just gave up and decided to simply write-off my eBay and PayPal accounts for good. I would never get that money or access to my seller account again and I'd be done with it. So - I thought I might as well post all the fucking bullshit this guy is doing and make it as hard on him as I can at least. I posted all the emails I received from him as well as the phone conversations we had (although not documented obviously) and call him out for running an eBay scam and trying to extort money from me, etc... etc...

 

For some reason, once I posted all this shit into the dispute console he accepted the original $150 "refund" within 10min. of the post and closed out the dispute. Fucking Amazing. And I still have nothing to be happy about with the resolution unfortunately: Its Bullshit that it only got resolved after I called him out. I'm guessing he panicked after I confronted him over the scam and figured that PayPal may close it in my favor, and he still got the $150 discount he initially wanted from the auction anyway. :bh

 

To top this crazy shit off... PayPal then charged me transaction fees for the original payment from him, a fee for using the dispute console to resolve the issue and another fee to send him his "payment". Uuuugghhhhh... I couldn't believe this shit can happen and that PayPal themselves would still fuck me over after it all with more fees. As said - I'm done with eBay and PayPal forever now. Any other marketplace/auction site would have to be better than this shit...

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  • 8 months later...

I recently completed a few ebay transactions and I have to ask -

 

When did it become common for the seller to wait for the buyer to post positive feedback until they will post feedback? That's so backwards!

 

Shouldn't the seller post feedback as soon as they receive payment?

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Shouldn't the seller post feedback as soon as they receive payment?
Nope. I never left feedback right away. A few times I got payment, then a fraud complaint happened from the buyers payment method and the funds were frozen. There was no way to take the positive feedback away.

 

Which is why I haven't sold anything on ebay in years. Not worth the hastle and the fees.

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When did it become common for the seller to wait for the buyer to post positive feedback until they will post feedback? That's so backwards!

 

Shouldn't the seller post feedback as soon as they receive payment?

Speaking from a frequent seller's perspective, yeah two things: you get a chargeback or some other bullshit later and you've already left positive feedback and two, you CAN'T leave negative feedback as a seller now which is pretty dumb. At least you don't get screwed twice by having left positive feedback for a scammer.

 

That all being said, I sell a lot of stuff and the fraud/lost package rate is very, very small. Just a cost of doing business you factor in.

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Speaking from a frequent seller's perspective, yeah two things: you get a chargeback or some other bullshit later and you've already left positive feedback and two, you CAN'T leave negative feedback as a seller now which is pretty dumb. At least you don't get screwed twice by having left positive feedback for a scammer.

 

That all being said, I sell a lot of stuff and the fraud/lost package rate is very, very small. Just a cost of doing business you factor in.

 

Yup

 

I still hate the new no-bad-feedback-for-seller system as there is now no way to leave bad feedback for unreasonable or asshat buyers. I still do almost zero business on ebay, mainly for this reason.

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I'm struggling to come to terms with the fees eBay and PayPal charge these days, and I know that for at last one of them (Paypal I think) they take an even higher commission here in the UK than they do the US. Sold something on eBay at the weekend and there's almost ?50 subtracted in fees alone. First time using PayPal as a seller - which is forced upon me for the type of electrical goods I had put up for auction. eBay has to be a last resort for me in parting with goods. It's no wonder they recently announced a big drop in profits.

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