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Angry the Clown

Photography (hardware & technical discussion thread)

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18 minutes ago, Angry the Clown said:

What is it that’s making these Nikon and Canon lenses so chonky? Is it primarily the modern sophisticated AF mechanisms? 

 

I have no idea how optics work, but you'd think with wider mounts that the lenses could be shorter or "flatter" but the opposite seems to be the case. A lot of the nikon z primes are longer than I'd thought they'd need to be. 

 

Canon news tonight?

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26 minutes ago, Starhawk said:

Canon news tonight?


Canonrumors seems less certain of the R5 reveal happening with everything else tonight but we’ll see. 
 

Would people object if the R5 was of a similar size to a 5D I wonder? (not that this has been rumoured). I really see no benefit to these smaller bodies if users are to be left pairing them with such enormous lenses. It’s always been one of Fuji’s core arguments for not doing mirrorless full frame.

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6 minutes ago, Angry the Clown said:

Canonrumors seems less certain of the R5 reveal happening with everything else tonight but we’ll see. 

 

 I just saw this in their forums on that post:

Screen Shot 2020-02-12 at 10.54.26 AM.png

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I’m surprised Fuji isn’t similarly cautious thanks to Fujirumours who had all specs (save price and weather sealing accuracy) correct right up to the point of the X100v’s reveal, as well as accurately dating the X-T4 announcement well ahead of Fuji doing so themselves.

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And here it is...

 

 

Quote

MELVILLE, NY, February 12, 2020 – Canon U.S.A. Inc., a leader in digital imaging solutions, today announced that its parent company, Canon Inc., is developing the highly anticipated Canon EOS R5 full-frame mirrorless camera. The camera will feature a newly designed CMOS sensor and new image processor, along with new state-of-the-art optical technologies the company has been able to cultivate through its long history of groundbreaking camera and digital imaging solutions development. In addition, Canon plans to release seven RF lenses and two RF lens extenders that are currently in development. These new photography tools will help to continue to strengthen the EOS R system and cement the RF mount as an industry leader.

 

“Today’s announcement comes as a direct result of the tireless effort of Canon engineers who have been tasked with developing the next generation of Canon EOS R camera and RF lenses to help elevate the popular system that was announced in 2018,” said Kazuto Ogawa, president and chief operating officer, Canon U.S.A., Inc. “In developing the new camera, Canon listened to extensive user-feedback from a variety of photographers. The outcome is a camera and lenses that will delight a variety of shooters and further helps to demonstrate Canon’s commitment to full-frame mirrorless cameras and lenses.”

 

The EOS R System was initially developed to provide engineers with the ability to design lenses that were thought to be impossible to create previously. The wide lens mount diameter, shorter back focus, and high-speed system for transmitting data between camera and lens have resulted in an imaging system that delivers higher image quality and greater ease-of-use than ever before.

 

The new full-frame mirrorless camera currently under development will fully leverage the advantages of the EOS R System, helping to produce a camera that features high-speed continuous shooting and 8K video recording. Furthermore, the camera will provide photographers with more efficient workflows thanks to improved transmission functionality, operability and reliability. These enhancements, along with many others, will help to further elevate and solidify the EOS Series concept of “Speed, Comfort and High-Image-Quality.”

 

Canon’s EOS R5, the first of the next generation of full-frame mirrorless cameras planned for EOS R System, will include a newly developed CMOS sensor. The new sensor will enable enhanced features such as high-speed continuous shooting up to approximately 20 frames-per-second (FPS) when using the silent shutter and up to approximately 12 FPS when using the mechanical shutter – A feature professional sports and wildlife photographers will find to be extremely impactful on their ability to capture fast-moving subjects. From a video perspective, the camera’s 8K video capture capability will prepare videographers for the future of movie-making- capturing 8K footage today allows for even higher-quality 4K productions in addition to the ability to extract high-resolution still images from the video footage. The EOS R5 will be the first Canon camera equipped with IBIS (In Body Image Stabilization) and when used in conjunction with the extremely effective in-lens stabilization (IS), will allow photographers to handhold the camera in light levels not previously imagined. Additionally, the camera will also feature dual-card slots and will support the automatic transfer of image files from the device to the new image.canon cloud platform.

 

Alongside the EOS R5, Canon is also developing seven RF lenses and two RF lens extenders scheduled for release during 2020, including the RF 100-500mm F4.5-7.1 L IS USM, Extender RF 1.4x and Extender RF 2x.

 

Additional Information

 

Reference exhibits for the EOS R5 and RF 100-500mm F4.5-7.1 L IS USM, Extender RF 1.4x and Extender RF 2x will be on display in the Canon booth at the CP+ Camera and Photo Imaging Show 2020, to be held from February 27 to March 1 at the Pacifico Yokohama convention hall in Yokohama, Japan.

 

A preview of the EOS R5 will be on display at the 2020 WPPI Show (February 25-27) in Las Vegas.

 

 

Obviously they're keeping quiet on the price right now. I'm surprised they confirmed much of the leaked spec but did not actually specify the sensor resolution. The 8K confirmation is impressive, although it remains to be seen how that gets implemented. It's going to be very interesting to find out what the codec is, what in camera video production features it genuinely offers (typically the area Canon will short change their cameras so as not to harm their dedicated cinema lineup), what the output options are and of course, what the crop might be at various resolutions/framerates. 

 

Also seven new lenses for 2020 is good. I really hope a couple of them are smaller, higher quality, non L primes.

 

I can't get a good sense of its size. The mounted 24-105 seems a little better balanced on it compared to an R, maybe? Space between grip and the lends looks awfully tight though. These days I can't even tell if I am looking at an actual product of a CG render in these kinds of product videos however. What's weird is the 24-105 looks shorter mounted on the R5 here than it does on an R. You'd think the body surely has to be bigger than the R on account of all the processing that's going to be going on under the hood here.

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7 hours ago, Angry the Clown said:

Also seven new lenses for 2020 is good. I really hope a couple of them are smaller, higher quality, non L primes.

 

Same. Although looking at their roadmap graphic, the 24-105mm and the 100-500mm already take up two of those spots.

 

map-hiRes-scaled.jpg

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I was thinking that I’d sooner see them do an RF update of the EF 50mm 1.4 than I would the cheaper 1.8. Not that I am in the market for anything like the R5 mind you.

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The EF 50mm f/1.4 was my first lens ever and basically got me into photography, so I'd love to see that. 

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On 2/11/2020 at 12:45 PM, Brandon H said:

And to be honest, for quick vacation trips and when I’m headed on a business trip somewhere interesting, I still often just grab my M5. Its controls make it a joy to use and it’s just easier to pack about. I limit myself to the 18-150mm kit lens and make myself get creative with it.

 

:)

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CP+ has been cancelled due to Coronavirus fears which now leaves WPPI in Vegas as the first public debut of the R5 (whether it will be a genuine debut or a pre-production body entombed in a perspex box is anyone’s guess. 
 

I’ve been wondering whether attempts to contain the coronavirus may affect rollout of new electronics expected in the coming weeks/months (X100V...etc).

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On 2/13/2020 at 12:46 PM, Rainmaykr said:

 

:)

Hey, it’s the only lens I have for the body that doesn’t require the EF to EF-M adapter... 😉

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12 hours ago, Brandon H said:

Hey, it’s the only lens I have for the body that doesn’t require the EF to EF-M adapter... 😉

 

Just ribbing ya! I read that as, "I limit myself to practically the entire focal range of hand-holdable lenses and make myself get creative with it." 😛

 

How are you liking the M5? I still have a few M(1)'s and often come dangerously close to upgrading for travel purposes.

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I love the M5. I had an M as well and never loved it. It always seemed a step slow to focus and I just prefer a viewfinder to “live” shooting. The M5 addresses those concerns and also is, to me, still the easiest Canon camera to use (although the R is close.) I can adjust aperture, ISO and shutter speed by feel alone, which I can’t do with any of my full-sized bodies.

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X-T4 seems very nice. Really a refinement of the X-T3 rather than a revolutionary upgrade, but still a hell of a lot features and quality for your money. I like that it's a little bigger and has a better grip, but am particularly impressed with the emphasis Fuji have seemingly put into dampening the shutter. Not that I've any experience with flip screens (until the X100V arrives anyway, but I guess that's a tilt not a flip), I'm not sure I like the style of the one of the XT-4 where it has to first flip right out to the side in order to then be tilted. For video that's surely going to be very good, but for photography a little cumbersome perhaps.

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Agree @Angry the Clown! I already told my wife I'm getting one, to which she replied, "No you're not. Your X-T1 is still fine." I'm hoping that's a ploy on her part to throw me off the fact that she's getting it for my birthday. We'll see. If she doesn't, I'll buy it myself as it will be way cheaper than a divorce :)

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2 hours ago, jubjub75 said:

Agree @Angry the Clown! I already told my wife I'm getting one, to which she replied, "No you're not. Your X-T1 is still fine." I'm hoping that's a ploy on her part to throw me off the fact that she's getting it for my birthday. We'll see. If she doesn't, I'll buy it myself as it will be way cheaper than a divorce :)

 

XT-1 to XT-4 will be quite a leap! That's at least two generations of sensor and processor I think? They seem to be in a very happy place with the 26mp sensor and X-processor 4 having used both on the X-T3, X-T30, X-Pro 3, X100V and now the X-T4 (not sure if they use the combination in some of the other X models. There have too many X cameras in my opinion). I guess they may reserve a next gen leap in processing and a higher mp sensor for an X-H2. I certainly applaud them for going with a new larger battery for the XT-4.

 

It's been interesting to look at what Fuji have been doing in more detail recently. I enjoyed the X-E2 and X-Pro2 when I had them despite some image file issues, though I did feel that I would have been better off with the X-T over the Pro at the time having later tried it as I felt its form factor balanced better with the larger prime lenses, and the EVF size and eye relief was much nicer on the X-T. The EVF in the X-Pro3 is a lot nicer now than its predecessor though, and I personally don't hate the route they went with the rear screen which I know ruffled a lot of feathers (though I think the best option would have been to somehow invent a tilt screen that could function like the X100V's but but flipped back completely and hidden from view, so I guess taking the best of the V and the X-T4's LCD). Still, if I was to pick between the X-Pro 3 and X-T4 I'd go for the T4. It's a shame the X-Pro 3 missed out on the X100V's lift/lock ISO dial mechanism and the X-T4's dampened shutter.  

 

I'm kind of kicking myself for taking my eye off Fuji's medium format endeavours as I hadn't paid enough attention to the existence of the GFX 50R, and there was a point last year where I actually could have afforded to try one but it just wasn't on my radar so I ended up going another route, and even the amazing prices (relatively speaking) on the 50R and GFX lenses recently have now found me at an inconvenient time financially so I can't consider it. I wish I didn't have such a Goldilocks complex with digital cameras. I feel constantly embarrassed by it. Weirdly my cycle from one camera to another in such short spaces of time has never had anything to do with features. It's always ergonomics. 

 

I was also looking at the X lens roadmap. I am a little surprised there are no rumours of mkII revisions for their 35mm 1.4 and 23mm 1.4 primes. I feel it's time they had, at the very least, weather sealing and faster/quieter af motors. Optically I am not sure there is a good argument to change them. 

 

 

I am very much looking forward to the X100V. While coronavirus issues have apparently meant that X-T4 shipments will not begin until late April this doesn't seem to be the case with the X100V as launch shipments appear to have been on schedule this week on the silver models, though I opted for a black one which, for whatever reason, Fuji stated would not begin shipping until around the 12th of March back when they announced the camera. This could be down to the X100 being manufactured in Japan vs China for the X-T4. 

 

It'll be nice to play with an X100 again having owned the original all those years ago. Quirky and flawed as it was, I do think it was a very special and important camera, and the V seems to have pretty much seen it finally attain a damn near perfect evolution. As a glasses wearer I could not get comfortable with a 35mm field of view on a Leica M viewfinder, even on the M10 with its improved eye relief, and in a built up city like London I just find myself crying out for something wider than my 50mm safety net these days. The V is remarkably versatile when you factor in the leaf shutter, the available teleconverter and wide angle lenses, fast A/F plus good face/eye detection, and now with the tilt screen and 4k video. Had the X-Pro 3 viewfinder not been carried over, had it not been weather sealed, and had the lens not finally been revised at long last, I might have hesitated on the purchase, but they seemed to have ticked all the boxes with the V and the UK price was below what had been rumoured so I ordered one instantly. Interestingly this is probably the first time I've been enticed by features on a digital camera in over a decade, I think perhaps because so many of these bells and whistles have reached a point of maturity. The only thing I'll have yet to try in a camera is IBIS (which to be honest is really only of interest to me from a video perspective).  

 

One thing that bugging me is that Fuji have abandoned bundling a battery charger with their cameras. Bear that in mind when you get the XT-4. Clearly they've taken the in camera USB-C charging as an excuse to save a few $$ (probably literally just a few $$) in not packaging one with their latest cameras.  I've purchased a cheap third party dual battery charger for X100 batteries as Fuji don't make a dual charger for them. They are however making an official dual charger for the X-T4 batteries. 

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Like you said, the lack of bundled external charger on the X-T4 is very odd. It can't save them more than a couple dollars per unit. But USB-C charging is great. I'll probably get a second battery and the dual charger anyways.

 

My wife got the X-T30 about 6 months back and loves it. I can contribute my extra batteries to her shooting endeavors. Maybe that will away her 🤣

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Yes, I’d always have at least two batteries regardless, even with the Canon 7D and 5D3 which had phenomenal battery performance. If they could translate that to the 5R it would be wonderful but we have to accept that EVF’s are one of the many demanding factors with these modern cameras.
 

That was one thing that drove me from Fuji a few years ago as the older cameras just chewed through batteries at an insane rate. I think I had four with the X-Pro2. It’s great that the processing power has allowed the cameras to be so much more economical. I have a spare for the X100V ready to go, along with the filter and adapter for weather sealing. Hopefully the black models of the camera ship on schedule around the 12th. 
 

I’ll be keeping an eye on the X-T4 as I’m very interested in getting something decent for video over the next twelve months so will be keen to see reviews of production models performance, and we’ll see what Canon genuinely offer with the 5R. The Black Magic video cameras are also on my radar. Perhaps I should even look at Sony. 

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My black x100v arrived today right on time. Such a cute little thing. I was a bit concerned the screen might be a little flimsy but it's really sturdy and ridging when angling. Lack of d-pad honestly hasn't taken anything away as far as custom function button mapping is concerned for me, and it's nice having that clean space to rest your thumb instead in my opinion. Only odd design flaw I can speak for at this point is that the lens cap no long fits once you attach a filter to weather seal the camera as the cap sits too far forward to grip the focus ring for attachment.

 

I have not missed Fuji's endless maze of menus, I must admit.  At least once I have everything where I want it I can pretty much avoid ever having to churn through them at length again.

 

Now, with everything going on in the world of course I'm damned if I know when I'm going to get out and put its through its paces. I may have to turn away from people and photograph nature and architecture for a little while.  I'm hoping to see the TCL adapter for a good price in the coming months. I missed some discounts in late January it seems.

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Canon have revealed more details about the EOS R5 specs.

  • 8K RAW internal video recording up to 29.97 fps
  • 8K internal video recording up to 29.97 fps in 4:2:2 10-bit Canon Log (H.265)/4:2:2 10-bit HDR PQ (H.265).
  • 4K internal video recording up to 119.88 fps in 4:2:2 10-bit Canon Log (H.265)/4:2:2 10-bit HDR PQ (H.265). 4K external recording is also available up to 59.94 fps.
  • No crop 8K and 4K video capture using the full-width of the sensor.
  • Dual Pixel CMOS AF available in all 8K and 4K recording modes.
  • Canon Log available in 8K and 4K internal recording modes.
  • A Canon first, the EOS R5 will feature 5-axis In-Body Image Stabilization, which works in conjunction with Optical IS equipped with many of the RF and EF lenses.
  • Dual-card slots: 1x CFexpress and 1x SD UHS-II.

 

shocked jaw drop GIF

 

 

How will they stop this thing from melting in a body little bigger than the R?

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Honestly I am not sure. By making it a 5 series you'd kind of expect it to come in at around something not too far north of the 5DIV's launch price. I really don't think it would be priced too badly (all things considered).

 

I think we'd have to assume something like a 5 minute limit on 8k recording, and maybe 8k internal only to the (VERY expensive) CFExpress card?

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Those specs are insane. Total and utter overkill. I can’t say I’m not tempted. 

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