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Photography (hardware & technical discussion thread)


Angry the Clown
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On 9/4/2021 at 11:43 AM, xPieter said:

Is this out yet? Did you keep your pre-order?

 

The body itself is released, but not the bundle I got with the 28mm lens. Still have the pre-order but also still not sure of keeping it. The main reason is I don't know how much I'll actually use it over the next couple months and wonder about holding off to get it later. 

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I'm very curious to see how it compares to the X-T4/X-Pro3. I still think it was a mistake not making the X-pro3's monitor behave similarly to the ones like on the R6/R5, and indeed the ZFc, as such an approach would have still allowed users to keep the display closed, while giving everyone else the option of having it flipped over and visible. I don't use the viewfinder much on the X100V as it's quite cramped with my glasses, so the limitations of the LCD on the X-Pro3 was a real turn off for me knowing that it shares the same hybrid viewfinder as the X100. The ZFc's EVF is only 2.6m dot 0.68 magnification so I'd probably find that a bit too fiddly for my tastes too as that's lower res than the one in the X100V/XPro3 (though higher magnification). I don't know what the refresh rate is on the Nikon.

 

I've realised as EVFs have become more prevalent their performance and specs have become one of the most important factors in my choosing cameras on account of my glasses. Second to ergonomics the EVF is without a doubt a hugely important factor in my never ending Goldilocks complex when it comes to camera bodies. To date the best I've ever used in a camera I've owned was the one in the SL (and I know the SL2/SL2-S EVF is even better). When I tried it in store I found Q2's EVF to be a definite improvement over the EVF on my original Q that I had, and is probably the limit of what I can tolerate when it comes to eye relief and resolution in a smaller viewfinder. I'm sure I'd be very comfortable with the R5's EVF too as its specs are basically on par with the SL2, just without the whopping .78x magnification on the Leica. I suspect the R6's lower resolution EVF would be pretty acceptable as I believe the magnification and fresh rates are still the same between that and the R5. 

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I've sold my Q2M for a few reasons. One is I just can't get comfortable with 28mm. When it works, it's amazing, but a lot of the time it's too wide for me. I also couldn't get used to black and white only. There were so many times when I wanted color. I thought I was going to be all edgy and street only shooting mono, but with three kids in the house I realize I want to document the color of their lives and only occasionally do I care to document things in black and white (hint: when the lighting is bad). So yes, I took a loss on my first bit of Leica gear in some time, but now I'm free to try something different.

 

I'm hoping someone will have a strong opinion on the level of diminishing returns I would get from putting one of the SL Summicrons on my CL. I'd love an SL, but for now size is a priority and the CL is less than half the weight of the SL. I'd consider either the 35mm or 50mm Cron. I should probably just save the money and get the TL 35/1.4 vs the SL 35/2, right?

1145301237_ScreenShot2021-09-07at7_24_01AM.thumb.png.6f72bf5e384552b0dbb402c757a9aac4.png

 

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6 hours ago, xPieter said:

I've sold my Q2M for a few reasons. One is I just can't get comfortable with 28mm. When it works, it's amazing, but a lot of the time it's too wide for me. I also couldn't get used to black and white only. There were so many times when I wanted color. I thought I was going to be all edgy and street only shooting mono, but with three kids in the house I realize I want to document the color of their lives and only occasionally do I care to document things in black and white (hint: when the lighting is bad). So yes, I took a loss on my first bit of Leica gear in some time, but now I'm free to try something different.

 

That's a shame to part with it, but I completely understand. I do genuinely believe it is the best digital camera Leica make (as an all round package), but it's unquestionably ultra niche and requires that complete and total love and commitment to B&W for it to make the slightest bit of sense, especially when you consider the regular Q2 converts to b&w beautifully and still has good dynamic range and pleasant noise up to 6400. I'm considering a Q2 for my birthday next year as it's a big one and worthy of such a grotesque indulgence if I can afford it, and I confess that I would certainly lean toward the Mono as it's what I love and tend to favour most of the time.

 

With the mono, outside of the fact I just love b&w imagery, I'm primarily drawn to the workflow aspect of it most I think (not having to think about spending more time at the computer perfecting a conversion from colour, and honestly not having to worry about ISO at all. The latter adds to the longevity of the camera too. Assuming b&w is what you love of course, the sensor performance is so good on the mono cameras that more than five years down the line it's unlikely to feel outdated, whereas I know with a Q2 I'd ultimately be wanting a Q3 when it surfaces in a couple of years. Anything that would reduce the chance of my switching/upgrading to something else can only be a good thing given my history. If it wasn't for the shutter noise mechanism on the old M9 I actually think I'd have snapped up a used Mono M9 by now). There is that 5% part of me that would have some hesitation about the commitment to a Q2M though. I have some personal colour images that I'm fond of, not many, but having the benefit of choice at the computer is undeniable. In a perfect world one would own both, naturally. :) 

 

Very good Q2 vs Q2M vs M10M comparison here:

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2021/02/bw-iso-showdown-2021-leica-q2-monochrom-vs-m10-monochrom-vs-q2-vs-m10-r/

 

Considering I will typically add some grain in post, and the Q2's noise at 6400 (and even 12,500) is pleasant and very film like, there's little to make me think I'd be disappointed with the regular Q2. In fact, if intending to convert to b&w with the Q2, I think it gives you a lot even at iso 25,000. It's that detail and tonality retention that the monochromatic sensor gives you far into its iso range that is just magnificent though. 

 

Being locked into a 28mm is funny. I was apprehensive when I got the original Q, and found it challenging in some ways, while liberating in others, and it opened my interests into architectural photography. I ultimately parted with it for similar reasons regarding the focal length in the end, but I actually miss it and wish I had embraced its quirks and challenges more. If it wasn't my one and only camera at the time I'd have held onto it. The Q2/Q2M's obscene resolution makes the prospect of cropping more practical compared to the original Q too (Q2M crops in particularly. I've thrown some Q2M RAW DNGs into Capture One and it's just mind boggling how much resolution there is). Maybe it's because London is feeling more and more cramped to my eye that I find myself favouring a wider view more frequently. 35mm would be the sweet spot for me though as for isolating people you do have to get close with the Q even at 1.7 if you want some attractive depth of field. I'd still have my M10-P if the viewfinder would have been more comfortable with 35mm frame lines and my glasses (my go to of 50mm is just starting to feel too tight in the city these days).  

 

 

6 hours ago, xPieter said:

 

I'm hoping someone will have a strong opinion on the level of diminishing returns I would get from putting one of the SL Summicrons on my CL. I'd love an SL, but for now size is a priority and the CL is less than half the weight of the SL. I'd consider either the 35mm or 50mm Cron. I should probably just save the money and get the TL 35/1.4 vs the SL 35/2, right?

1145301237_ScreenShot2021-09-07at7_24_01AM.thumb.png.6f72bf5e384552b0dbb402c757a9aac4.png

 

 

I think the TL would be wiser personally. It keeps the system compact in your bag, and you have the benefit of f1.4 which is a nice place to be able to go given the APS-C sensor inherently lacks as shallow a depth of field as a full frame will render. Have you considered any Sigma L mount lenses?

 

It's interesting the CL-2 still has not surfaced yet. I want them to knock it out of the park with that when it arrives. Give it a sensor that outdoes the X-Pro 3, give it excellent autofocus and give it the Q2's EVF. If they can do that they honestly might just turn my head if they finally announce it before my birthday next Spring. I'd like to see it in a re-designed body too.

 

If you wanted an SL (camera) I'd still recommend the SL2-S over the SL2 if you're happy to have 24mp. The SL2-S arguably has their best colour sensor in any of their cameras to date (it's their first BSI sensor so it's very good in low light. Beautiful colour reproduction too. I'd expect an M11 and probably all future colour full frame sensor Leicas to move to BSI sensors when announced).

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Formal announcement of the Canon R3 (with the price and any remaining specs left to reveal) seems to be happening on the 14th.

 

 

Set credit cards to stun. 

 

 

Reminder of the specs revealed so far:

 

  • Backside illuminated image sensor (exif leak suggest 24mp)
  • Multi-Controller & Smart Controller
  • Vari-Angle Touch Screen
  • NEW accessory shoe
  • Wifi 5GHz
  • High speed 30fps electronic shutter with AF/AE tracking + RAW shooting at this speed
  • AF down to -7.0 EV
  • 8 Stops Coordinated Control IS with Optical IS and In-Body IS
  • 4K Canon Log3
  • Oversampled 4K
  • Internal RAW video
  • Inclusion of cars and motorbikes in AF tracking technology
  • Speedlite shooting with electronic shutter
  • The same weather sealing as the EOS-1D series
  • LP-E19 Battery
  • Dual card slot SD & CFExpress
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On 9/6/2021 at 1:44 PM, Starhawk said:

 

The body itself is released, but not the bundle I got with the 28mm lens. Still have the pre-order but also still not sure of keeping it. The main reason is I don't know how much I'll actually use it over the next couple months and wonder about holding off to get it later. 


Looks like the Japanese release date is 10-1 and US and Australia is 10-4 for this kit with the 28mm.

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Things moved quickly this morning. A friend of mine had recently sold his M10-P, but not all cash. Turns out he got an SL 50/2 in the deal and offered it to me for too good a price. Like you and every other photographer I imagine, I'm looking for that goldilocks combo and knowing myself I'll always wonder if the SL lens is better than the TL or 3rd party brand equivalent. So now I'll be able to say I've tried one and I'm sure someday I'll find a deal on one of the SL bodies (same friend is actually selling his SL2S) and won't be able to resist trying that out. For now I'm really happy to try it on the CL as that's a much more comfortable body for around the house and neighborhood shooting.

 

I do frustrate myself with all this buying and selling knowing that I probably could have stopped with any of the gear I've bought after 2017 and had very similar results. But playing with all this gear has really helped keep me sane during the pandemic and you can't put a price on that!

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5 hours ago, xPieter said:

Things moved quickly this morning. A friend of mine had recently sold his M10-P, but not all cash. Turns out he got an SL 50/2 in the deal and offered it to me for too good a price. Like you and every other photographer I imagine, I'm looking for that goldilocks combo and knowing myself I'll always wonder if the SL lens is better than the TL or 3rd party brand equivalent. So now I'll be able to say I've tried one and I'm sure someday I'll find a deal on one of the SL bodies (same friend is actually selling his SL2S) and won't be able to resist trying that out. For now I'm really happy to try it on the CL as that's a much more comfortable body for around the house and neighborhood shooting.

 

I love, love, love those SL Summicrons. Spectacular optics across the range and I've always been weirdly impressed that they are all engineered to physically be the same size too. 

 

Definitely take a chance to play with your friend's SL2-S if you can. The SL bodies will go to war. They are like carrying a brick around, but honestly not that much heavier than an M (especially with M glass mounted, which they pair with very well). The subtle body refinements over the SL made the ergonomics of the grip better too. The only thing I don't understand is why they changed the strap lugs (I much prefer the ones that didn't protrude on the original SL body). Manual M lens focusing with the enormous EVF in the SL is a match made in heaven too. 

 

I still don't feel confident that Leica would have my back if I was looking for opportunities to earn money with their cameras, and right now I'm still in a place mulling over whether that's what I'd like to do with any camera anymore so am not entirely sure which path I want to take. I have video related projects I absolutely want to do, but whether I'm better off focusing on dedicated video cameras or getting a hybrid to still allow me to offer photographic services I am still unsure. Leica's repair turnaround speed, at least in the UK, isn't great, and Brexit's likely made it even worse given that all but the Q bodies (and I think C and T bodies) have to return to Wetzlar for repair. It's odd how they push the SL as a camera pros can use, which it is, but lack anything like Canon, Nikon, Sony or even Fuji's professional service support. If I could invest in two bodies right off the bat for safety it would be less of a concern. The SL2-S costs less than an R5 here which is kind of crazy even when you factor in the technological advancements, mostly af related, in the Canon.

 

 

5 hours ago, xPieter said:

 

I do frustrate myself with all this buying and selling knowing that I probably could have stopped with any of the gear I've bought after 2017 and had very similar results.

 

Yes, it's frustrating. I've said it before but the worst decision I made was parting with my 5D3 and M9 combo when I did, selling both for the M240. The 240 introduced a number of advancements to the M series that I felt that, while challenging for some paid work, would serve me just fine doing what I wanted to do. To some extent it did as having live view and the option of an EVF made the M quite versatile, but the troubles I had getting it repaired after the rangefinder drifted were a nightmare and soured me on Leica for quite some time, so I grabbed Fuji's XE-2 then and X-Pro 2, both of which I liked despite the fiddly ergonomics and frustrating menus. Even now with the X100V though, there's still something about the x-trans sensor files that I don't quite enjoy working with at the computer. Just a slight mushiness at times for lack of a better word. Fuji's cameras kind of feel made to serve their jpeg processing above anything else. The current X-Trans 4 sensor and processing definitely is an improvement for the quality of their RAW files though. I got the Q after the X-Pro 2 and I really could have held onto that were it not my one and only camera. 

 

The M10 was definitely the worthy successor to the M9 that the 240 should have been. I loved my M10-P, but it was sentimentality and PTSD following the loss of a family member I'd been caring for that drove me to trade in the Q towards buying one on an insane emotional whim. It was simply a camera I could not justifiably afford hanging on to, particularly since my glasses really only limit me to using a 50mm comfortably with an M. That's been a big lesson for me, and one many purchases have taught me but took me an age to actually heed, as while I don't get into debt buying any of this stuff I definitely need to think twice about just how much I can justifiably spend on a camera for personal use and not leave myself anything leftover for another camera for other purposes. My last Leica was the SL which I got as I wanted a workhorse camera again for paid assignments people were showing interest in hiring me for, and despite my hesitation about using any Leica for paid work, I was heavily swayed by the fact I could still hang on to my M lenses. Things were starting to well at the end of 2019 and I even had a video project that I felt confident the original SL would serve me just fine for.... but then 2020 happened. When I wasn't sure just what the hell 2020 was going to bring financially I just had to part with everything to give my savings a bump (turned out to be a the right decision however sad it made me).

 

 

5 hours ago, xPieter said:

But playing with all this gear has really helped keep me sane during the pandemic and you can't put a price on that!

 

That's great. Curiously the pandemic hasn't compelled me to do much personal photography at all. My X100V arrived right at the start of it, which was just terrible timing, but even as things have eased I just haven't found myself wandering around the depths of the city as much. Things aren't helped by Capture One kicking my ageing laptop's fans into gear for even the most basic of tasks, and my longing to work at a larger screen. The pandemic also severely delayed my getting an eye test which I am seriously overdue for (I finally booked myself one for this Friday).  

 

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IMG_0647.thumb.jpeg.f955e67e577123b7da48a3a3930c0e8e.jpeg

 

Somehow my first thought with new Leica gear is still, "Dang that's heavy." I never learn. The setup looks good and I like the weight distribution. Hopefully this afternoon I'll get some light to work with and take some shots.

 

Now please, tell my why they would put that little white dot for mounting the hood off-center? I'm glad Steve Jobs didn't live to see this.

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Interesting you went for the 50 over 35. I know you said 28mm was too wide for you on the Q, but is a 76mm equivalent with that lens on the CL not now too tight, or is it simply that the CL gives you the benefit of choice when it comes to lenses?

 

 

I was looking back over the SL2-S last night. It's still very tempting. While I wouldn't count on its video af for anything (for stills it's fine) it's the camera's other general video features, if one looks beyond its flawed af, where they've really paid attention. L-Log is superb, they were thoughtful enough to put waveforms in the menu options, there's full size HDMI, shutter angle options, the BSI sensor makes it a great low light performer...etc. Basically a lot of cinema camera features you're just not seeing in Canon's hybrids or even Sony's "cinema" branded FX3, and you still get A+ class Panasonic IBIS that nobody is quite matching right now.  The main thing lacking is Leica dragging their feet in offering ProResRAW support for external recording (they were supposed to be partnering with Atomos on this but things have gone quiet). 

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Sigma announced two more lenses to their DN 'Contemporary' mirrorless lineup today, a 24mm f2 and 90mm 2.8. As usual they are available for both Sony E mount and Leica/Panasonic/Sigma L mount.

 

24mm:

3014816.jpg?width=400

 

https://www.sigma-global.com/en/lenses/c021_24_2/

 

 

90mm:

3014818.jpg?width=400

 

https://www.sigma-global.com/en/lenses/c021_90_28/

 

 

It's a damn shame they're not able (allowed?) to bring these to Z and RF mounts right now. I've been pricing up every camera set up of interest under the sun recently along with all the technical/ergonomic pros and cons of each system and by far the biggest knock against a Canon R6 or R5 for me is lack of small lenses that would leave me happy to carry a single camera for work and personal use. The price and size of the higher end RF lenses make it so difficult, and Canon put next to no effort into dampening the noise of the af motors in their smaller and cheaper 1.8 and f2 RF lenses which are otherwise optically excellent. So frustrating. The Sigma Contemporary primes are small, quiet, metal and are typically landing at around a £600 price point.

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4 hours ago, Angry the Clown said:

Interesting you went for the 50 over 35. I know you said 28mm was too wide for you on the Q, but is a 76mm equivalent with that lens on the CL not now too tight, or is it simply that the CL gives you the benefit of choice when it comes to lenses?

My reasons for getting the 50... It was available from a trusted seller at an awesome price. The TL 35/1.4 is supposed to be the best TL lens, so I'd rather reserve that focal length for that lens. Aside from the 28, the 50 is the most recent Summicron release so I hope that means something IQ-wise. 76mm is the tightest I would like to go indoors and will serve as my portrait lens.

 

Now if I had an SL would 50mm be my first choice? I don't know. That's hard to say and a battle my brain will have to go through some other day.

 

Dang that's a compact 90mm. That's up there on my wish list now.

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36 minutes ago, xPieter said:

Now if I had an SL would 50mm be my first choice? I don't know. That's hard to say and a battle my brain will have to go through some other day.

 

It would certainly be mine if I had the funds to go for an SL lens, but really only for paid purposes. I don't think I'd enjoy running around with an SL+SL lens as my day to day or travel camera. An SL with one or two of those dinky Sigma contemporary primes though? That opens up more possibilities if I were desperate for more portable autofocus lenses, but with that EVF I'd be perfectly at ease with M mount lenses.

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European price for the R3 has apparently been leaked, with signs pointing to it costing €6099, which would translate to £5200 here in the UK but I could see Canon charging more on this silly little island by needlessly inflaiting it to £5499. It would put it under $5500 in the US. I must admit, given R5 pricing and 1DXIII pricing that is around about where the R3's pricing should fairly land given they don't consider it a flagship camera, but I wasn't entirely confident Canon would play fair in this instance. 

 

Assuming it has no real drawbacks in the video department, by which I mean so long as it doesn't overheat, then I think the price is fair given the specs Canon have shared so far (again, it's technically better than a 1DXIII in many ways, and in a smaller body but a body still built to go to war). If you factored in the price of a vertical grip with an R5 the alleged R3 price would compare quite favourably if higher 45MP resolution in the R5 was negligible to the buyer.

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I had an eye test today as I was long overdue thanks to the pandemic. Thankfully no deterioration, but I opted for some new glasses frames nevertheless and will pick those up in a couple of weeks. Of the two pairs I ordered one allows for ultra thin cut lenses and I am really interested to see how that affects my eye with small EVFs and being able to see wider focal length frame lines on a Leica M. I did also sit and try contact lenses today. I've tried them before, but only with assistance applying them. I did in fact manage to get so far as to be able to apply them myself this morning without freaking out which was something of a small triumph having always hated the idea of touching my eye, though I needed assistance removing them as I just couldn't get a grip on them to take them out. I'm fascinated by just how strong our eyelids are in their ability to resist fingers prying them open. I'll be trying them again when I collect my frames though as they've offered me a free trial period.

 

Anyway, to get to the point of why I'm even sharing this... I've commented regularly about the troubles my glasses introduce with certain cameras. The reason has never been related to my prescription itself, but the fact the very nature of wearing glasses means inherently creating greater distance between my eye and the viewfinder of any camera I pick up. The cramped and small EVF on my 100V for example becomes a lot more pleasurable if I remove my glasses and adjust the built in diopter accordingly, but that's never struck me as a practical method of enjoying photography with my eyesight as I need my glasses to see my surroundings and what I intend to photograph before raising the camera to my eye, and it's impractical to keep removing my glasses and rely on a diopter every time I want to then capture an image. Similarly, while my perception of an image is blurred of course, I can nevertheless look through the viewfinder of my M2 without my glasses and comfortably see the 35mm framelines (and the area outside of them) which is in stark contrast to looking through a rangefinder vf with my glasses on, where 50, 75 and 90mm framelines have always been my only useable options.

 

The lenses in my current glasses are already thin, but again it will certainly be interesting to see if the ultra thin ones in one of my new pairs improves things. I'll make a point to take my M2 and X100v to the optician when I go back later in the month. I prefer wearing glasses. They seem to suit me and I just don't recognise myself without them. Knowing contacts would completely eradicate my viewfinder woes is nevertheless eye opening if you'll excuse the obvious pun, and I've probably wasted years creating problems for myself having not been willing to wear them on occasions when I know I'm going to be using a camera all day.  

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I'm glad to hear you might give contacts a go. I've worn them since I was nine and my optometrist keeps pushing the laser eye surgery. I resist because my brother got it years ago and now he has to wear a pair of very weak glasses. It's much better than the gigantic heavy ones of his past, but for me, giving up the option to wear contacts for a few years of not wearing glasses and then a lifetime of a weak prescription is not something I'm willing to do yet.

 

I took some photos with the 50 yesterday and love the results. I have a decent amount of experience with Fuji's 50/2 so I'm getting in my head comparing them. The Leica combo cost me 3.7 times what the Fuji did. I'll need a lot more time to make that decision.

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1 hour ago, xPieter said:

I'm glad to hear you might give contacts a go. I've worn them since I was nine and my optometrist keeps pushing the laser eye surgery. I resist because my brother got it years ago and now he has to wear a pair of very weak glasses. It's much better than the gigantic heavy ones of his past, but for me, giving up the option to wear contacts for a few years of not wearing glasses and then a lifetime of a weak prescription is not something I'm willing to do yet.

 

It's funny how I went so long resisting them, to the point of never even really doing the experiments that I did today with the cameras right up to my eye. You just get so used to a way of life after several decades you tend not to seriously explore any alternatives. If I can master applying and removing contacts, and then find some lifestyle balance where I can happily alternate between them and my glasses, then I think I'll finally embrace them. I find glasses make me more approachable, which is a plus if photographing people, so I'm still a touch apprehensive. There are other benefits I'd get from contacts though, like running or going to the gym which have generally been the main reason I've considered them in the past.

 

 

1 hour ago, xPieter said:

I took some photos with the 50 yesterday and love the results. I have a decent amount of experience with Fuji's 50/2 so I'm getting in my head comparing them. The Leica combo cost me 3.7 times what the Fuji did. I'll need a lot more time to make that decision.

 

I think Leica know how to make a lens that's consistently impressive from wide open to around f11, with great micro-contrast and rendering (or "character" as some might say). NoT necessarily perfect, whatever that really means in this context, but consistent. On sharpness, I think most modern glass is actually likely to be very similar, especially between f4 and f11. As ever, the Leica stuff primarily costs more because they don't rely on mass factory production, which is a fact easily overlooked (particularly by those who love to mock the company), so on performance I doubt there's honestly a whole lot in it these days between Leica, Fuji, Canon, Sigma, Sony or Nikon, so the differences are usually in the nuances of the glass.

 

Micro-contrast and differences in colour might be easily recognisible in a lens, but rendering/character is more of a subjective thing. Sigma's lenses seem quite clinical to me, but it's hard to knock their balance of performance/value. They're seemingly unmatched in that regard. Leica and Canon have a rendering I've always been drawn to, while I've not had enough experience with Sony or Nikon's glass to form a solid opinion (Sony seem quite clinical, while some Nikon lenses strike me as unassuming and a little bit boring, while others in their range most definitely display uniquely attractive character). Zeiss is quite clinical too, yet there's still an extra special something about a lot of their lenses and I've honestly loved the Zeiss M mount glass that I have owned in the past. Were I to buy a digital M again I'd be wise to grab another Zeiss lens to make a saving and get within 95% of what Leica's own equivalent lens might give me. I don't know if I will part with my 50mm Summicrom M as it currently only functions on my M2. If I knew for certain I'd end up with a digital M again in the near future I'd hold onto it. I don't see it happening unless an embrace of contact lenses radically leaves me re-evaluating the value I might get out of a rangefinder... or I am blessed with a random financial windfall. :)

 

Speaking of the M11, it's due to be announced in November and it already looks like the M10 has ceased production as my dealer has not had black M10s in stock for a while now, so I assume whatever remaining new stock is floating around out there is all that's left. I might keep an eye on used M10 prices once the M11 launches though as that might prove a sensible way back into the system if I wanted to go that route, but damn, having owned the M10-P and that quiet shutter, it'd be strange to have to fallback to a used M10. What would be great is if Leica brought back the M-E, which at the time was a re-badged M9 with a different colour finish to the body at a reduced price that came out around the time of the M240. An M10 re-badged as an M-E for a lower price would be nice to see.

 

Leicarumours claims the M11 will have a 36MP BSI sensor, and the baseplate will now be fixed and the battery will be more like the one in the Q/SL (if not the very same battery model). I've seen some rumour suggesting the M11 sensor will be even higher than the 40MP M10R though which sounds ludicrous to me and I hope isn't true. Save that silliness for an M11R. 36MP would be very nice, and BSI seems inevitable following the SL2-S. I wonder if the M10Ps shutter mechanism will naturally trickle down to the base M11 though. 

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On 9/10/2021 at 2:45 PM, Angry the Clown said:

European price for the R3 has apparently been leaked, with signs pointing to it costing €6099, which would translate to £5200 here in the UK but I could see Canon charging more on this silly little island by needlessly inflaiting it to £5499. It would put it under $5500 in the US. I must admit, given R5 pricing and 1DXIII pricing that is around about where the R3's pricing should fairly land given they don't consider it a flagship camera, but I wasn't entirely confident Canon would play fair in this instance. 

 

The US price for the Canon R3 is being reported as $6000, which I guess following reports on the European price actually makes sense as the European price as I noted above would put it at around £5200 (again, probably to be rounded up to £5500 for...reasons?) in the UK, whereas $6000 translates to around £4300 here which is the UK price of the R5, so a disparity of £1000 between US and UK prices for the R3 would not shock me in the slightest. 😒

 

I'm definitely interested to see the final specs and pricing on Tuesday. I'd expect the embargo for Youtubers to be lifted on the same day.

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R3 press release:

 

Quote

MELVILLE, NY (September 14, 2021)  Building on the success of the EOS R camera series, Canon U.S.A. Inc., a leader in digital imaging solutions, today announced the next leap forward in full-frame mirrorless cameras – the professional-grade Canon EOS R3. The new camera leverages the advancements in technology that Canon has developed since the original EOS R launch in 2018 and bridges the gap between the immensely popular EOS R5 and the world-renowned Canon flagship EOS-1D X line. The EOS R3 is the first ‘3’ series camera from Canon since the widely used EOS-3 film camera was launched in 1998.

 

The EOS R3 camera’s features greatly emphasize superb AF performance and speed with fast-moving subjects. It was designed to meet the reliability and durability demands of professionals, even when working in some extremely challenging conditions.

 

‘The launch of the EOS R3 sets a new benchmark for the Canon EOS R camera system. Canon listened carefully to the voices of professionals when developing a camera to meet their standards,’ said Tatsuro ‘Tony’ Kano, executive vice president, and general manager of Canon U.S.A.’s Imaging Technologies & Communications Group. ‘The EOS R3 is a monumental evolution in digital imaging technology. I look forward to seeing the camera in action on the sidelines of sporting events and in the hands of nature and wildlife photographers across the globe.’

 

The core of the EOS R3 features a Canon designed and manufactured 24.1-megapixel back-illuminated stacked CMOS sensor. The sensor is the first of its kind from Canon, and when combined with the DIGIC X processor, delivers a high-speed readout allowing for continuous blackout-free shooting1 at up to 30 fps in electronic (silent) shutter mode and up to 12 fps in the mechanical shutter, with minimum rolling electronic shutter distortion. The combination also increases the high sensitivity, light-capturing efficiency of a native ISO range of 100-102400, expandable up to 204,800 for still images. Like the EOS R5 and R6, the camera features the improved Dual Pixel CMOS AF II with 1,053 AF Points and evolved EOS iTR tracking down to EV -7.5 for subjects such as eye, face, head, animals2, and select cars and motorcycles. In addition, the camera features up to 8 stops3 of in-body image stabilized (IBIS) shake correction.

 

Leveraging technology and performance feedback from the popular EOS R5 and EOS R6cameras, the EOS R3 uses Deep-Learning technology to further enhance eye and body detection for even better performance during portrait and action-type shooting. Featuring a new 5.76-million-dot and 120fps blackout-free1 Electronic Viewfinder, the EOS R3 camera will provide photographers with the ability to select the initial area for AF tracking by simply looking directly at the viewfinder location where they want to begin AF. With Eye input AF2 and Servo AF activated, the camera will focus on and track moving subjects at that location in the frame. When Face Detect + Tracking is active, the camera will continue to follow moving subjects around the entire active AF area.

 

The EOS R3 camera doesn’t just capture spectacular still images, it also packs impressive video specs as well. The camera is capable of shooting 6K 60p RAW and 4K 120p 10-bit uncropped video with Canon Log 3 support, in addition to the possibility for oversampled 4K and RAW movie internal recording. Canon Log 3, which is frequently used in cinema production, helps to reduce the possibility of highlight blowouts. What’s more, the features such as industry-standard BT.709, BT.2020 color gamuts, and cinema gamut help to maintain color and tonal consistency. Coordinated 5-axis IBIS helps to correct operator motion or shaking providing dependent video capturing even when using a lens without built-in Optical IS.

 

Additional features of the EOS R3 Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera include:

  • Canon’s next-generation Multi-Function Shoe that is compatible with a variety of accessories including the Speedlite EL-1, and new accessories such as the ST-E10 Speedlite Transmitter, External Mic, and Smartphone Link Adapter
  • One-piece magnesium alloy design, integrating the body with a vertical grip section
  • Weather and dust resistance equivalent to EOS-1D camera models.
  • Mobile File Transmitter application for iOS® and Android® devices allows photographers to transfer their images quickly and easily without the need for wired LAN equipment
  • Built-in Wired LAN, 5GHz Wi-Fi®, USB and Bluetooth® technology
  • Dual-card slots, supporting one CF express and one UHS-II SD

 

The Canon EOS R3 Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera is scheduled to be available in November 2021 for a suggested retail price of $5999.99*. For more information, please visit usa.canon.com

 

† Based on weekly patent counts issued by the United States Patent and Trademark Office.

 

* Specifications, availability, and price are subject to change without notice. Actual prices are set by individual dealers and may vary.

 

  1. Blackout(s) may occur in some cases; such as when the built-in memory is full or when the flash battery is fully recharged after the battery ran out during continuous shooting.
  2. Effectiveness varies depending on the subject. In some cases, dogs, cats or birds may not be detected, while some animals other than dogs, cats or birds may be detected.
  3. When combined with certain IS lenses such as the RF24-105mm F4 IS L USM, or when used with certain non-IS lenses as well. See the individual lens product page for more information.

 

 

So AF seems to be the same as the R5/R6 which is fine, and it adds additional animal and vehicle tracking now (since the processor is the same as the R5 and R6 there's every chance those new modes will make it into those cameras). 

 

The video specs are solid, and I'll be curious to see whether it overheats in both 6k and 4k RAW capture (it's worth noting that Canon Log3 also came to the R5 and R6 a couple of months ago, so any real dynamic range improvement with the R3 is going to come from its sensor compared to the R5/R6). 

 

For the spec obsessed, if this camera is coming in at $6000usd I'm not sure if Canon have hurt themselves a little there, when for $500 more the Sony A1 is 50mp with reliable 8K recording and similar sensor readout and burst capture speeds. For IBIS, build quality and ergonomics I think the R3 would be a win compared to the A1 and I really do think it could find favour beyond the sports/action market it's primarily aimed towards, but the internet is most certainly going to hit them hard on pricing when comparing the two. A lot of reactions may rest upon just how good the sensor is.

 

I'd expect Youtube to be flooded with hands on videos in around two hours after the actual presentation from Canon.

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Good God. US price is indeed $6000, but they re-calculated that to £5879 in the UK somehow (equivalent to $8150!). Oh, Canon...

 

The presentation was interesting. They really are just looking to appeal to the same news/sports photographers who reach for the 1dX, which I genuinely think is a mistake as the performance under the hood here can really broaden the appeal. It's weird that this is so clearly a 1dXIII mirrorless replacement, their flagship camera, but not billed as the flagship R body which again begs the question what the hell will an R1 be someday, and how do Canon expect that to square up with a Sony A1 (and soon Nikon Z9) which have specs that match the R3's 30fps but with twice the resolution, 8k video and are not much more expensive than the R3? 

 

 

 

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That's what I don't quite understand, yes. What's the R1 going to be positioned as when the A1 (and soon Z9) will do what the R3 does, and a little bit more, with higher resolution. Does the R1 basically just become a higher megapixel R3 for $500 more? 🤷‍♂️ Canon don't want people referring to the R3 as their flagship in the way that they themselves consider the 1Dx their flagship, so I'm truly baffled as to what an R1 would be and at what price point they'd bring it in at as, again, you're kind of going to be getting more from Sony and Nikon's flagships for about $500 extra on the price over the R3. What could an R1 possibly add over an A1/Z9?

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