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The Official Television and Display Technology Thread - Enter of your own will.....(and leave with a lighter wallet)


NickC
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Nice set. I saw a D8599 from Sony this week, 55" for £999. Not sure what the US equivalent of that model is, or indeed how it differs to the 930 which is priced similarly to the Samsung. 

 

 

AVForums have a settings video for the 93 (I'm assuming it is the same model as the US and there's not insane samsung like model numbering going on);

 

 

 

Here's their video review:

 

 

 

And longer review in print:

 

https://www.avforums.com/review/sony-kd-55xd9305-ultra-hd-4k-hdr-tv-review.12266

 

 

Does that look like the same model the US has?

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Yep, that's exactly the same. 

 

I think I'm going to stick with the Samsung, frankly. I like the stylings of the Sony more and it has better color reproduction but the goal here was to spend a marginal amount on the upgrade until OLED or some other technology comes along that really blows me away at a fair price.

 

$1200 for the KS8000 fit that bill to the tee even more than expected as I had originally spent $1400 on the set prior to the sale price. 

 

Though it looks like LG has dropped the price of the B6 to $1999 now which is REALLY tempting the hell out of me but realistically - if I'm going to spend 2k on a TV set, I want this entire HDR/Dolby Vision standards situation to be worked out and done for. 

 

I'll be patient and stick with my original plan. I'm not in any way unhappy with the KS8000 so there's little reason to question myself there. plus the input lag being so damned low is a big plus.

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That one is £1599 here at the moment for the 55 inch, against £1549 of the Samsung. HDTV Test seemed to rate the motion handling of UHD 24p content better on the Sony (65" model reviewed here: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kd65xd9305-201604034267.htm)

 

 

I hate reading the actual AV forums forum threads on TVs as you'd think every TV was a flawed and buggy piece of shit. 

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That one is £1599 here at the moment for the 55 inch, against £1549 of the Samsung. HDTV Test seemed to rate the motion handling of UHD 24p content better on the Sony (65" model reviewed here: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kd65xd9305-201604034267.htm)

 

 

I hate reading the actual AV forums forum threads on TVs as you'd think every TV was a flawed and buggy piece of shit. 

 

It's why I'm very measured in my reading of the AVS forum. You'd never make a purchase of any set if you took everything said at face value.

 

The price difference is substantial here. $1599 for the 930D, $1199 for the KS8000.

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Mmm, remember I'm comparing it to the UK KS8000 price which is your KS9000 though. I was surprised the difference here is a matter of the Sony being £50 more nevertheless as usually Sony's go for a higher premium. Having said that it did retail at £1800 when it came out in the spring. The Sony does not appear to have the same peak and dark brightness levels as the Samsung, but it still falls within the UHD premium standard despite lack of certification branding. It also does seem to have more advanced edge lighting and HDTV Test seemed to highlight its superior 24p 4k content handling.

 

App support is not as strong as the Samsung, but if the Sony TV is similar to the region-free Sony bd player I recently bought myself then it may have the advantage of offering 24p handling for Netflix and Amazon which, believe it or not, most devices do not provide. 

 

 

Some dealers are throwing in a free Sony CT390 soundbar with the Sony set here (which is worth about £250). I don't know much about sound bars though and how well they truly work. Since I have no HT that might be something worth my considering.

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Congrats on all the purchases.  A quick question:  what's everyone's criteria on screen size?  With what little research I've done, it seems that based on my viewing habits I'm gonna need at least a 60 inch.  I'm sitting a good 7 to 10 feet away.  It looks like most people here are on the 55 inch range.  Are you guys sitting much closer?

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Congrats on all the purchases.  A quick question:  what's everyone's criteria on screen size?  With what little research I've done, it seems that based on my viewing habits I'm gonna need at least a 60 inch.  I'm sitting a good 7 to 10 feet away.  It looks like most people here are on the 55 inch range.  Are you guys sitting much closer?

 

Seating distance and room size. I honestly weighed a 65inch but its too bad for where I sit and would look gawdy as hell in my den. I came from a 55inch Plasma which I felt was perfect and didn't rock the boat in that regard.

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Mmm, remember I'm comparing it to the UK KS8000 price which is your KS9000 though. I was surprised the difference here is a matter of the Sony being £50 more nevertheless as usually Sony's go for a higher premium. Having said that it did retail at £1800 when it came out in the spring. The Sony does not appear to have the same peak and dark brightness levels as the Samsung, but it still falls within the UHD premium standard despite lack of certification branding. It also does seem to have more advanced edge lighting and HDTV Test seemed to highlight its superior 24p 4k content handling.

 

Right. KS9000 is priced similarly to the 930D here also. Though the premium on the KS9000 over the 8000 wasn't worth it to me. It came down to whether I wanted to nicer stand and a bit better peak brightness. Not worth the money to me. I've seen the Sony up close and personal and stylistically, it blows both Sammy's out of the water. It /looks/ like a premium television and as noted, its color reproduction is absolutely better along with the improved motion resolution you mentioned.

 

A Sony dealer friend of mine have advised that Sony have two more firmware updates planned to continue to address HDR/4K input lag which makes the set enticing for sure. Another in December and one more in the new year. If it were $200-$300 bucks cheaper, I'd probably swap out. :)

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I'm currently 5.5ft from my 50" Pioneer 1080p Plasma. That's primarily the result of circumstance and being right up against the wall otherwise I might prefer to be another foot or so further back (my TV produces a bit of PWM noise which is distracting at times at that distance, otherwise I'd actually be happy).  If I buy a new TV I'd be looking at a 55 inch for 4k from the same distance, although the stands modern TVs come with take up less space than my Pioneer's stand does, so on my AV table stand I could feasibly sit a new TV further back and be about 6ft from a 55" UHD display, but looking at the chart below I'd benefit more keeping it at around 5.5ft.

 

Since bezels have shrunk over the years a 55" display will also take up no more real estate than my current 50" TV does. I'd actually go 60" if I could but given the way TV tech is evolving I don't look at a new TV under consideration as my main TV to last me 8-10yrs as I did the Pioneer when I bought it. So for now I'd be looking to find a balance between price, size and performance.

 

 

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A Sony dealer friend of mine have advised that Sony have two more firmware updates planned to continue to address HDR/4K input lag which makes the set enticing for sure. Another in December and one more in the new year. If it were $200-$300 bucks cheaper, I'd probably swap out. :)

 

Very interesting. I'll seek out a few demos of the 930. Is the current 52ms ok? When you see Samsung in the 21-25ms range it seems like such a vast difference on paper.

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Speaking of sound bars, I got a mailing this week from Sevenoaks about Samsung's new K950. It's got Atmos 5.1.4, through the bizarre step of being a soundbar with not only a separate sub, but two separate bookshelf-sized rears. Which is novel, to say the least.

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Very interesting. I'll seek out a few demos of the 930. Is the current 52ms ok? When you see Samsung in the 21-25ms range it seems like such a vast different on paper.

 

It's actually 58ms. I got that wrong in my original post. It's not great but its down from 110ms it was prior to this update. 

 

We're talking 4-6 frames of lag. Standard 1080p content is about 32ms. So its damn near double that.

 

Short and sweet: You'll feel it.

 

The Pioneer Kuro's and Panny Plasma's were at about 40-46ms so it might not be /that/ much of an issue for you. Though I can tell you enabling game mode on the Samsung units in HDR is a revelation in terms of control responsiveness.

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I want to raise one question. Is there any inherent reason LCD TVs would look so much crisper than my Pioneer plasma? Is it the age of my TV or is it simply a difference in the panel technology? I remember a few years ago while my Pioneer was in storage I used a 1080p 32inch Panasonic LCD and things looked so much sharper, not artificially so, just lovely and crisp (this was especially noticeable with PS4 menus). Whenever I go out and look at new TVs I do sense my Plasma's age showing, despite its glorious contrast performance, but then perhaps it's unfair as when I am out I am looking at 4K HDR demos on UHD TVs. 

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On the LG OLED front:

 

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/2631489-no-hdr-game-mode-2016-models.html

 

 

Good Afternoon Matteo,

Thank you for getting in touch regarding the HDR game mode for your OLED TV. We have recently been informed by the development team that this update is no longer planned for the 2016 range of TVs, as it would be require a hardware update in order to function, and instead will be released on the 2017 range.

If you have any further questions, please get back in touch.

Kind regards,

LG Electronics UK Help desk

 

....Sorry. No OLED in my future until they get that sorted.

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It's actually 58ms. I got that wrong in my original post. It's not great but its down from 110ms it was prior to this update. 

 

We're talking 4-6 frames of lag. Standard 1080p content is about 32ms. So its damn near double that.

 

Short and sweet: You'll feel it.

 

The Pioneer Kuro's and Panny Plasma's were at about 40-46ms so it might not be /that/ much of an issue for you. Though I can tell you enabling game mode on the Samsung units in HDR is a revelation in terms of control responsiveness.

 

 

Interesting. I find frame rates in gaming hard to differentiate if it is a locked 30 vs a locked 60. I can see it side by side, but I don't feel short changed with a good 30fps experience. Strangely for video content I can instantly tell the difference between 24fps, 48fps and 60fps...etc. Given all that, I wonder which way I would fall in noticing lag. I should check the lag of my Dell monitor and see how it compares to the same game played connected to the plasma. I am enjoying playing PC games more on my 24" dell monitor than my plasma, but I think that has more to do with higher peak brightness on the monitor and (following on from what I wrote above) the Dell LCD just being a crisper image. 

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I want to raise one question. Is there any inherent reason LCD TVs would look so much crisper than my Pioneer plasma? Is it the age of my TV or is it simply a difference in the panel technology? I remember a few years ago while my Pioneer was in storage I used a 1080p 32inch Panasonic LCD and things looked so much sharper, not artificially so, just lovely and crisp (this was especially noticeable with PS4 menus). Whenever I go out and look at new TVs I do sense my Plasma's age showing, despite its glorious contrast performance, but then perhaps it's unfair as when I am out I am looking at 4K HDR demos on UHD TVs. 

 

It's the panel brightness, IMO. I went upstairs last night to where I moved my VT50 and my wife was watching Ghostbusters 2016 on Blu-Ray and it was the first time I said to myself "Goodness, that looks dull" having spent the last week or so with the new set. I watched Ghostbusters on BD on the new set before popping in the UHD version and yes, the brightness of the panel and color reproduction simply provides a more crisp and appealing image, IMO. One of the biggest adjustments I've had to make with the new TV is getting used to whites actually being a BRIGHT white. My eyes have become so accustomed to whites on a plasma being a dimmer shade of white/grey if that makes sense....

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A Sony dealer friend of mine have advised that Sony have two more firmware updates planned to continue to address HDR/4K input lag which makes the set enticing for sure. Another in December and one more in the new year. If it were $200-$300 bucks cheaper, I'd probably swap out. :)

 

Good to hear. 52ms isn't good enough for a gaming TV.

 

This also gives me hope we'll see some awesome sets next year!

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Good to hear. 52ms isn't good enough for a gaming TV.

 

This also gives me hope we'll see some awesome sets next year!

I mean you say that concerning the 52ms but I played TLOU and inFamous on the KS8000 with HDR enabled and NO game mode and it felt completely fine to me. Having game mode on absolutely felt much more responsive and it is absolutely noticeable as I mentioned earlier but it was completely fine and that's 118ms without game mode! The only place I truly felt it was Deus Ex and that was unplayable at 118ms but were talking half that on the Sony sets.

 

I played Gears on the B6 in HDR and it has 62ms. I had zero issues. It really comes down to tolerance and how much you really notice it and whether it truly effects your experience. Outside of that, it's just a number.

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I mean you say that concerning the 52ms but I played TLOU and inFamous on the KS8000 with HDR enabled and NO game mode and it felt completely fine to me. Game mode on absolutely felt better but it was completely fine and that's 118ms without game mode. The on,y place I truly felt it was Deus Ex and were talking half that on the Sony sets. It comes down to tolerance.

 

I played Gears on the B6 in HDR and it has 62ms. I had zero issues.

 

My main experience was going from my Panasonic Plasma to my current Sony LCD. Im unsure of the lag on my plasma, but I think it was above 60ms based on Rock Band and some research. The Sony is around 30ms and I felt a huge difference in aiming in a FPS. I wish I knew the actual lag on the Panasonic. 

 

When I switch to cinema mode on the Sony, it jumps to 120ms, and yeah, holy shit that's bad :D

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My main experience was going from my Panasonic Plasma to my current Sony LCD. Im unsure of the lag on my plasma, but I think it was above 60ms based on Rock Band and some research. The Sony is around 30ms and I felt a huge difference in aiming in a FPS. I wish I knew the actual lag on the Panasonic.

 

When I switch to cinema mode on the Sony, it jumps to 120ms, and yeah, holy shit that's bad :D

My Panny Plasma was 43ms if memory serves. Never had an issue. Not once. The B6 I'm getting cycles between 38-54ms with HDR. SDR content is 43ms. Identical to my plasma. 43ms to 54ms? Not enough for me to notice or care considering the massive PQ increase from an OLED.
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My Panny Plasma was between 43ms if memory serves. Never had an issue. The B6 I'm getting cycles between 38-54ms with HDR, SDR content is 43ms. Identical to my plasma. 43ms to 54ms? Not enough for me to notice.

 

I went into a multiplayer lobby by myself on The Last of Us multiplayer, and switched the HDMI between my two TVs at the time. I thought I'd saved the video, as it was a big difference, but can't find it now. After that I really paid attention to input lag.

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The B6 hovers around £1999 here. Nice set but I've still little confidence in OLED. Were it around £1500 mark I'd consider it though but LG are taking huge losses as it is. HDTV Test seem quite excited about a firmware they are beta testing which is known to at least fix its HDR judder issues so you're picking it up at a good time by the sounds of things.

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