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The Official Television and Display Technology Thread - Enter of your own will.....(and leave with a lighter wallet)


NickC
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The B6 hovers around £1999 here. Nice set but I've still little confidence in OLED. Were it around £1500 mark I'd consider it though but LG are taking huge losses as it is. HDTV Test seem quite excited about a firmware they are beta testing which is known to at least fix its HDR judder issues so you're picking it up at a good time by the sounds of things.

I believe that firmware is out looking at the AVS forum posts. Folks are commenting on the improvements in Mad Max, etc.

 

Daniel, I would have stuck to the KS8000 but once I saw Gears, it was done. The HDR on display there completely destroyed anything I had seen on the Samsung. The contrast, colors, etc. There's no way I could go back. It wasn't even close and you got the sense that THAT was how HDR was intended to be displayed.

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I believe that firmware is out looking at the AVS forum posts. Folks are commenting on the improvements in Mad Max, etc.

 

Daniel, I would have stuck to the KS8000 but once I saw Gears, it was done. The HDR on display there completely destroyed anything I had seen on the Samsung. The contrast, colors, etc. There's no way I could go back. It wasn't even close and you got the sense that THAT was how HDR was intended to be displayed.

 

 

Technically it isn't how HDR is meant to be displayed given OLED's limited ability in handling of peak brightness, but I actually agree with you on a matter of personal preference. As a fellow plasma owner who's owned a top grade display for years I'd take the black levels against a high but not optimum peak brightness performance too (and LG's OLED still meets UHD Premium specs because there are two variants of the premium spec, one that favours blacks and one that favours peak brightness). There's certainly no shame in your decision if you're happy to part with the money, and you are covered for Dolby Vision at least for whatever that may truly be worth. The LG has ISF day and night settings too which is not an independent option on competing displays (and it really should be standard on HDR TVs given how wildly HDR is affected under daylight/ambient light). 

 

This was Vincent's comment on the firmware (v04.03.50):

 

 

 

Others have said it fixes the judder issues, but he's implied there's more to it than that. If LG have improved their colour accuracy then that would be very interesting as it's a notable area where their displays are lacking compared to competing LED HDR displays. 

 

My big hang up with OLED remains that it is a largely abandoned technology for large screens, with only LG continuing to pour money into it (and taking hefty losses as a consequence). Panasonic are sitting on an OLED prototype, but I don't know if it will ever be released. OLED should be getting a little cheaper if LG's initial inkjet printing OLED production run does well next year, but it will still be a couple of years away before we might see any benefit with regards to reduced costs. If the 2017 replacement to the B6 were to START at £2000 then that'd certainly be food for thought for me next year.

 

What else is known about the lag under HDR when gaming on the B6? Everything I'd read in the past suggested the big issue was less the ms response time it delivers, but the fact it is known to cycle wildly when in use for minutes with 4k HDR until it settles. I last read of that anomaly with the set a month ago, so it'd be good if the new firmware fixes that too and locks it down to a more stable response time. If they can sort that and the colour out it might be a set I keep an eye on should the price drop further ahead of it being replaced. £1500 is really a sweet spot with a TV for me though. I would go to £2000 if the LG could indeed see some notable improvements however, so I'm keen to know just what else HDTV Test is seeing with the new firmware. 

 

I'll be interested to know your thoughts on retention/burn in once you've had the set for a while as I see it on LG's OLED sets quite often (but that's only in stores when they're left on for hours at a time looping content, so hardly surprising). Can you let me know if it has any kind of orbiter modes like my KURO.

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Daniel, I would have stuck to the KS8000 but once I saw Gears, it was done. The HDR on display there completely destroyed anything I had seen on the Samsung. The contrast, colors, etc. There's no way I could go back. It wasn't even close and you got the sense that THAT was how HDR was intended to be displayed.

 

Oh wow, so the difference you were seeing was essentially because the panel was an OLED? I didn't know there was such a difference in HDR performance. 

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Others have said it fixes the judder issues, but he's implied there's more to it than that. If LG have improved their colour accuracy then that would be very interesting as it's a notable area where their displays are lacking compared to competing LED HDR displays.

Yep. The firmware is being rolled out slowly but is available to download on the LG site now.

 

Technically it isn't how HDR is meant to be displayed given OLED's limited ability in handling of peak brightness, but I actually agree with you on a matter of personal preference. As a fellow plasma owner who's owned a top grade display for years I'd take the black levels against a high but not optimum peak brightness performance too (and LG's OLED still meets UHD Premium specs because there are two variants of the premium spec, one that favours

Yeah, that's where I was coming from with the comment. The contrast levels on the television just popped at a level so much more enticing than what I had seen on the Ks8000 and the set wasn't even calibrated properly. I literally said "wow" out loud. I appreciate the peak brightness of the Samsung sets but there's nothing like zero blacks on the OLEDs and I'd be lying if I said that the 2:35:1 bars in films hit being completely black at all times didn't bother the shit out of me on the Samsung even with bias lighting. Coming from a top of the line plasma, it's really not easy living with some of the deficiencies of the technology but as you've said - LED has come a very long way. I liked a great deal about the KS8000 and for $1199, it will absolutely prove an excellent television for plenty out there. Especially if input lag is big consideration.

 

I'll definitely post up a full review once I've had the chance to calibrate and do some testing tomorrow. I'll try to answer any questions, too.

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Oh wow, so the difference you were seeing was essentially because the panel was an OLED? I didn't know there was such a difference in HDR performance.

 

Absolutely but it's as Daniel says, pick your poison in terms of preference.

 

..and yes HDR performance can vary wildly depending on the quality of the panel. Samsung has plenty of cheapie sets out there that claim HDR support. They are very poor displays in that regard,

 

You'll generally want to look for UHD premium certification as Daniel mentioned.

 

https://www.cnet.com/news/what-is-uhd-alliance-premium-certified/

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It's definitely worth going for a UHD Premium certified display. The branding does give you a little insurance when it comes to HDR performance (which we can still accept as a bit of a clusterfuck no matter what, really). Sony's higher end UHDTVs actually meet the Premium certification specs, they just don't carry the badge like some LG, Panasonic and Samsung sets do, so that's worth bearing in mind.

 

Vincent tweeted he will write more about his findings regarding the B6 firmware tomorrow and has noted it is HDR related. I'm very interested in what he has to share. He reviewed the E6 for HDTV Test but never the B6.

 

By the way, Romier... Buy yourself the Life of Pi UHD disc since you're getting the LG. Thank me later. I see this demo'd on the LG range of OLED displays often over here and it is honestly the most spectacular image I have ever set eyes on with a far more rewarding sense of depth than I've actually seen with 3D content. Loop that night scene with the whale and any concerns about spending extra on the LG will fade away pretty quickly.

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By the looks of it the reduction to £1999, at least in the UK, runs until Christmas Eve. Not sure if that is also true for North America.

 

 

Here is Vincent's assessment of the new B6 firmware (improvements to EOTF tracking, motion controls, highlights and shadow details, and fix for 24p frame drops).

 

With regards to lag, he writes:

 

With [TruMotion] disabled, the LG 55B6 returned a lag figure of between 55ms and 71ms in [HDR Standard] mode: it would start off at 71ms, drop slowly to 55ms before jumping back up to 71ms, after which the cycle would repeat.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/oled55b6v-201611044381.htm

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It's an oddity that's for sure. You can see it in the video below:

 

 

 

Quite how it affects gameplay I would think depends on the game. I've seen some posts on AVForums where it's been said switching truemotion off at least moves things from unplayable to tolerable on games like Forza, and John Linneman from Digital Foundry has an LG set although I am not sure if he got the entry level B6 or higher end E6 (he's not shared any videos expressly about the TV, however, but I can't recall him saying he had any big issues. Again though, he may have bought a C6 or E6). (edit: John has the B6).

 

What's curious is why the C6 settles quickly like the top end E6, but the B6 does not. I say curious because the C6 is pretty much the same TV as the B6 internally but curved and with passive 3D support.

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John commented in one of the threads on GAF about the B6:

 

I suggest you bring a console to the store and try the OLED. I think you'd be surprised by how responsive it is.

 

People overstate this issue a lot but it's something I think varies from person to person. If you play a lot of fighting games and are genuinely GREAT at them, you will be able to notice, but for most players, it's not an issue.

 

It's just something I think everyone should try for themselves.

Good stuff on the firmware update. I believe the US equivalent ends in .40.

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Daniel, on the subject of IR and burn-in:

 

The patent is accessible via its Google Patents page, but in short, OLED panels must periodically run a self-correction process to correct irregularities in the voltage being supplied to areas of the panel, the visual result of which is uneven brightness across the screen surface. This process takes some time, during which the TV is inoperable, an inconvenience which might explain why manufacturers have been unwilling to previously disclose it. The higher the pixel count, the longer the process takes, which goes some way in explaining why we saw notably poorer screen uniformity when OLED TVs made the jump to Ultra HD resolution.

 

For the first time, LG have placed the option to run the self-correction process in the user menu (previously, it was only accessible in the service mode.) The menu is called “OLED Panel Settings” and has two sub-options. The first schedules a cleaning session for next time the TV enters standby mode. The second puts the television into standby mode and begins the process immediately, and then turns the screen back on when it’s ready for use again. It takes a little over an hour, and interrupting the TV before it’s finished will require you to start again. It seems logical that in addition to these, the same behavior as prior generations will be in effect, namely that the display will silently begin the process after three hours of usage have accumulated and the TV has been placed into standby.

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It's a minefield. Because there are so many different HDR standards (both at the mastering and delivery level) on top of how HDR responds in both dark rooms and daylight even professional calibrators don't have a surefire way to get things right for all content and scenarios. You're best off turning to a forum that has a dedicated thread on your set and see what people are recommending (though bear in mind every panel is different to some degree). Your very best bet would be to have it professionally calibrated. 

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Nick, 

 

These were my settings on the KS8000:

 

My settings in HDR:
Backlight: 20
Brightness: 45
Contrast: 100
Sharpness: 0
Color: 50
Tint: G50/R50
Digital Clean View: Off
Auto Motion Plus: Off
HDMI UHD Color: Make sure this is set to On for the HDMI input going to your PS4.
HDMI Black Level Setting: Normal
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Color Tone: Warm2
White Balance: 2-point (only changes for me RGAIN -2, BGAIN 4 - this can vary per panel)
Gamma - 0
Color Space: Native

I've set the PS4 to RGB Range to full. HDR and Deep Color need to be set to automatic as well obviously in the video output menu. 

 

I felt that gave me a really pleasing HDR image. Some like to enable dynamic contrast as well but I don't like it at all. Boost brightness at a fake level.

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:)

 

If it's useful:

 

 

Yep, already did it!

 

Sampling Star Trek Beyond and Mad Max UHD's. It's insanity. 

 

No hyperbole, DEMOLISHES the KS8000 I owned. If money isn't a concern - OLED or bust, IMO. I'm utterly and completely sold right now.

 

A few things:

 

- I had to download the firmware update to a thumb drive. Still not available as an auto update. No issues updating and no issues with UHD/HDR stutter with the latest firmware.

- I've read on a few forums that you should run the clean screen noise function and after doing it - I completely agree. The TV had some serious uniformity issues out of the box with a grey test screen showing serious banding. The screen noise function took about an hour but it resolved 95% of the issues including some weird highlight issues at the bottom edge of the set. There's still some vignetting at the corners but I can completely live with. 

- I've never and I mean NEVER seen black bars in film this completely and inky black. It's mind blowing.

- HDR = GODLY.

 

 

WANT. MORE. CONTENT. 

 

The Pro can't get here soon enough.

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