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The Official Television and Display Technology Thread - Enter of your own will.....(and leave with a lighter wallet)

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And you talked me into it. Got the 65E6P on a microcenter sale for $2999. Getting it hung up on Monday. Can't wait. Was going to get the vizio p65 the wire cutter raves about but your praise of this set and the price drop made me pull the trigger.

 

Haven't gotten an xbox one s or PS4 pro yet. Which one is the better buy? The xbox one would be nice for UHD disks. Not sure I'm sold on the ps4 pro without the drive. How is HDR gaming on each of them? 

 

 

No issues I have to say. Continues to be an issue I don't even think about on the OLED, frankly.

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And you talked me into it. Got the 65E6P on a microcenter sale for $2999. Getting it hung up on Monday. Can't wait. Was going to get the vizio p65 the wire cutter raves about but your praise of this set and the price drop made me pull the trigger.

 

Haven't gotten an xbox one s or PS4 pro yet. Which one is the better buy? The xbox one would be nice for UHD disks. Not sure I'm sold on the ps4 pro without the drive. How is HDR gaming on each of them?

 

You're going to be a happy camper once you see the picture on the set. It's mind blowing.:)

 

The second question comes down to which games you prefer. If you're genuinely looking to take advantage of the new TV with games that exist today - The PS4 Pro is going to be the place where it's at for the time being until Scorpio hits. HDR on the S is fantastic and the UHD player is nice but it lacks bitstream output for Atmos, etc. If you're more interested in movie watching with the new set, the S is the way to go. Though wait for Black Friday. The S is going to be out there for $249 with games for free. Save the scratch and buy both. It's the only real answer. :D

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So errr...I went over to Best Buy and they had the LG B6 OLED out being demo'd with an Xbox One S and Gears 4. It dropped down to $1999 for the 55in.

I'm picking mine up tomorrow after the manager approved my return of the KS8000...

*dashes away in shame*

https://www.cnet.com/news/oled-tv-from-lg-drops-to-lowest-price-of-the-year/

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Good news. I hope they also fix the fluctuating lag bug on the B6, otherwise I'd keep an eye on what the lag time results end up being on the C model. Still sounds like an actual HDR Game mode is being left for their 2017 TVs, but improving the standard lag rate is definitely a good move. Pity we won't know what the improvement is and which model benefits most this side of Black Friday deals (the B6 is now £1899 here). It's still more likely that I will be leaving a purchase for another year though.

 

It's nice when something can happen with enough gentle consumer pressure.

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Im just glad how much attention input lag is getting, and it seems like LG and others might be more competitive on this front out the gate with their 2017's instead of catching up with firmware updates. 

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Indeed. Sony have the same fluctuating fault as LG on some sets too. Their removal of discussion on the topic on their customer forums is really sinister.

 

Samsung seem to be the only company to have anticipated HDR Gaming in 2016. 

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On the input lag front, I played the Call of Duty Modern Warfare Remaster last night on the B6. No HDR in the game but I didn't bother enabling any game mode. Just used the standard ISF Dark picture setting with my own calibrations. Game runs at a buttery smooth 60fps and I had zero issues. Played some multiplayer and was tearing things up pretty nicely given that I hadn't played the game online in ages. Got a few good kill streaks going and came in second in the room I was in on my team.

 

So that 58ms of input lag or cycling lag times or whatever continues to elude me as being a significant detriment to my ability to play these games or to even feel that there's a perceptible disadvantage. Either single player or competitively. I genuinely hope manufacturers continue to improve these sets for those that are more sensitive to these problems but it's a total non-issue for me on the B6. It feels no different than my plasma for a vast majority of the games that I play.

 

That being said, Sony should be taken to task for the shit their pulling removing those threads. Again, they just released an update improving the input lags on their line and they have two more coming in the near future. I've seen emails directly from Sony saying as much.Why not be upfront with your customers and state that you're working to improve these issues? Deleting threads and trying to hide these problems just engenders mistrust.

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Sony's 2016 Bravia line is ill-equiped to handle 4K gaming, as their flagship models have really high levels of input latency. Sony advertises their x930D bravia model as best fit for the PS4 Pro, but users who actually have it face a sever disadvantage when it comes to competitive and even casual games like Battlefield.

 

That's from the Reddit thread. That statement would have been true pre-patch when 4K HDR was pushing well over 100ms of input lag!

 

Current Sony Input lag on two of their more popular 2016 sets post-patch:

 

Sony X850D 2016

1080p @ 60Hz 34.6 ms

1080p @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 34.6 ms

4k @ 60Hz 57.4 ms

4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 57.4 ms

4k @ 60Hz + HDR 57.4 ms

4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 + HDR 57.4 ms

 

Sony X930D 2016

1080p @ 60Hz 36.2 ms

1080p @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 36.2 ms

4k @ 60Hz  59.1 ms

4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 59.1 ms

4k @ 60Hz + HDR 58.8 ms

4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 + HDR 58.5 ms

 

Hardly debilitating so a little less hyperbole would be helpful from Reddit but more importantly from Sony's perspective - what's to hide exactly?

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On the input lag front, I played the Call of Duty Modern Warfare Remaster last night on the B6. No HDR in the game but I didn't bother enabling any game mode. Just used the standard ISF Dark picture setting with my own calibrations. Game runs at a buttery smooth 60fps and I had zero issues. Played some multiplayer and was tearing things up pretty nicely given that I hadn't played the game online in ages. Got a few good kill streaks going and came in second in the room I was in on my team.

 

So that 58ms of input lag or cycling lag times or whatever continues to elude me as being a significant detriment to my ability to play these games or to even feel that there's a perceptible disadvantage. Either single player or competitively. I genuinely hope manufacturers continue to improve these sets for those that are more sensitive to these problems but it's a total non-issue for me on the B6. It feels no different than my plasma for a vast majority of the games that I play.

 

 

 

Regular 4k is a stable 43ms on the B6 (vs 34ms on the C6/E6). It's only when you feed the B6 4k+HDR that you hit the fluctuation bug, so with CoD the 43ms lag rate would be in the realms of what we've been used to outside of Game mode on our plasmas. If LG can get things down, and locked, at or below 40ms with HDR it would be great to see. 

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Regular 4k is a stable 43ms on the B6. It's only when you hit 4k+HDR you hit the fluctuation bug, so with CoD the lag rate would be in the realms of what we've been used to outside of Game mode on our plasmas. If LG can get things down, and locked, at or below 40ms with HDR it would be great to see. 

 

Right. I've played some Uncharted 4 multi for testing as well and that IS HDR and don't have an issue there either. The reality is that I'm just not as sensitive to input lag issues as some others are. Once you get well over the 100ms mark, then yeah I can absolutely feel it. But 58-60ms? Even cycling it doesn't at all bother me and I've said that before. YMMV.

 

43ms would be considered too much and "unplayable" by some of the people posting in that Reddit thread or on GAF by the way.

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For me it is game, or perhaps more accurately, genre dependant. I don't consider fps games on consoles or third person action games like Uncharted to be games that actually rely that much on accuracy and timing. They're very forgiving. A Super Meat Boy type game might be the type of thing where I'd notice, however, and possibly something like Rez or a Super Stardust type thing, but we've no examples of anything like that with HDR right now. 

 

GAF will nitpick anything to buggery. I don't think John from DF has questioned the lag on his B6 at all.

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GAF will nitpick anything to buggery. I don't think John from DF has questioned the lag on his B6 at all.

 

He hasn't no. If anything he's posted up stating it's not as much of a knock as GAF makes it out to be. 

 

I would disagree with Uncharted 4 multi not being accuracy/timing dependent. It's a competitive mode and you will die pretty quickly if your reaction time is off, etc. I think its a pretty good game to test something like input lag. Though I don't disagree that timing based games like Super Meat Boy would be more problematic.

 

I try to be understanding about the issue. I mean as noted, 100+ms is BAD. HDR enabled Deus Ex on the KS8000 without game mode was downright unplayable for me. HDR enabled Deus Ex on the B6? Very little to no issue when your shaving off 50ms+ off of that 110ms+ number. What drives me nuts is people posting "I would never buy a TV that has 60ms input lag! That's unplayable!" Sure that's a personal preference and that's fine. For YOU!/Bane. However, the less informed hear that and scratch off an excellent television on the basis that playing games on it is like being stuck under water and thats ridiculous.

 

So while I want to see these things improved upon and made better by all of these manufacturers - the input lag coalition would serve themselves a little better in understanding that 1) not everyone is as sensitive to these issues as they are 2) let's not go into hyberbole mode about fairly reasonable input lag numbers and 3) Not everyone plays the same genres of games that may bother you, etc.

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I think it helps that you and I have personally lived with plasmas for years and played on them outside of game modes. We're used to what we're used to.

 

I'm most likely going to see how the future B and C6 firmwares turn out, evaluate the 7 series models at CES then decide whether to jump on a cheaper end of line 6 series in Feb/March.

 

I'm guessing LG will not offer an HLG update on the 6 series and that is something I may consider important (more than HFR) if I am to spend more on a new TV and expect it to be my primary TV for 5-6yrs.

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Did some digging back to IFA in August and LG did issue a press release on HLG boasting the headline "NEWEST LG OLED TVS COMPATIBLE WITH FULL RANGE OF HDR TECHNOLOGIES" so I'd say they're in for a world of hurt if they do decide to deny 6 series owners a firmware update for that. 

 

http://www.lg.com/sg/press-release/newest-lg-oled-tvs-compatible-with-full-range-of-hdr-technologies

 

My eyes are firmly on what the lag firmware brings to the table in which case. I don't mind the curve of the C6 at all, but as someone without an HT/receiver having only three HDMI inputs vs four of the B6 is somewhat irritating (although in fairness I just have my Blu-ray player, PS4 and PS3 hooked up to my Pioneer. Come Spring the PS3 will be unplugged for the Switch). 

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I've got Gregg Loewen booked for January to calibrate the B6 for me.:)

Nice. Gregg did a great job calibrating my set a few years ago.

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Even LG E6 prices are tumbling here at the moment. Currently £2399 best, 2599 average which is around the price the B6 originally launched at here. I could see it nudging ever closer towards the £2000 mark as we get closer to the 7 series models. Really interested to hear what LG can do with the lag firmware. 

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