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Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread

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So... Endgame.



 

I’m happy with this conclusion but, some parts were confusing to me like why we weren’t seeing certain characters back or how other character stories move forward. This is the spoiler thread so fair warning...

 

I’ll start off by going through the character events that stuck with me the most:

 

Iron Man

This was the big one that everything has been leading up to and I felt it was a good conclusion but, maybe just telegraphed too obviously? I’m not unhappy with it or anything but, I guess some of the emotional impact was lessened for me because I was waiting for it to happen. Still a great and satisfying story arc for Tony Stark over the last 11 years and what an outstanding job by RDJ. 

 

Captain America

This was also a big one that the story has been leading up to but, I wasn’t expecting old-man Cap at the end and that was cool. We also got the handover of the shield to Sam which was great. Oh, and how bad-ass was Cap wielding Mjolnir and the Shield against Thanos 😎 Chris Evans was the perfect Cap for me - really happy to see this concludes that way.

 

Black Widow

This was a surprise to me. I expected Clint’s death, not hers and I was waiting for her to be brought back with a snap (or somehow) the whole rest of the movie. Her death bothers me more than most - I guess because I didn’t want her to be gone and i wasn't prepared for that one. I also didn’t feel like her character got a lot of development or time in Endgame, she was much less involved until Vormir and then only a few cursory mentions after that. Maybe there was more and I missed it.

 

Thor

This was a fun story arc and I liked it although you could argue it’s played a little too much for comic effect. I liked how they ended things with Thor and Valkyrie and how Thanos really shook up Thor with the failure in IW. Fat Thor was just hilarious and the joke kept paying off :) nice to see Korg again too. 

 

Ant Man

This was really his movie in a lot of ways and that’s not a bad thing. My only real problem was how much time I thought was wasted on the time travel setup. I get the time travel plot revolves around the quantum realm and pim particles and Ant Man but, I wanted less techno-babble exposition. There was a surprising amount of time spent on this part and about how the time travel stuff would work and much less about the plan to actually get the stones, which timelines to jump into, etc. His story arc was great so I don’t have anything bad to say about that but, I wanted more involvement from the core 6 Avengers and more on the plan (a.k.a Time Heist) and less Time Travel 101.

 

Hawkeye

He was central to the Endgame story as well and seemed to be much more involved in the world than any of the other characters after the snap. I thought this story was really well rounded with Clint’s downward spiral after the deaths of his whole family and what a great callback to Age of Ultron. I wanted  a little more on the after affects his rampage might have on him even with the family restored but, I thought he was given a great character/story arc through this one despite not being in IW.

 

Hulk

He was o.k. for me and it was nice to see Banner Hulk but, he was strangely not involved much at all in the overall story despite such a great setup and arc in Infinity War. I didn’t feel like we got any real development with him or “closure” on the Banner/Hulk internal struggle that was played up really well in IW. Feels like a missed opportunity.

 

That’s it for now - I’ll add more later.

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Adding more character overviews...



 

Nebula

She was much more integral to the Endgame plot than I expected but, in a good way. She is a more interesting character every time we see her so I was pretty happy with her story arc. It’s all a little convenient with bad Nebula / good Nebula but they didn’t waist a lot of time with it either so I’m good with her part of the story. It will be interesting to see the next Guardians movie.

 

 

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Dave you mentioned some stuff was confusing, which stuff was that? I saw a few people post that on social media last night. The only thing that stood out to me as odd was how Cassie got so much older, when the time jump was only 5 years. Same with Hawkeyes daughter between Ultron and the time of Infinity War.



 

Going in, there was a lot of stuff I  thought would happen, and a lot of things I hope would happen, and they pretty much all did.

 

Hawkeye-I had a gut feeling they were going to start the film off with Hawkeye's family dusting. I have always been a fan of Renner in this role, and I am very happy he got a bigger moment to shine in this one. Looking forward to his Disney+ Mini series

 

Tony-I always expected him to die in some way as well, but I am glad the time jump happened so his daughter survived. When they were watching the message from him at the funeral and they showed his daughter sitting with pepper, I just could not stop from getting dirt in my eye :) The little sound tribute at the end of the credits , of Tony making the iron man armor in the cave was a nice touch. It was also a great touch having the kid from IM3 now grown up at the funeral.

 

Capt-This one surprised me more then anything. I really thought he was going to to die going back to Infinity War. I let out a huge cheer when he started using Mjolinar, as I have been waiting to see that happen the entire MCU. The "Hail Hydra" elevator scene was spot on, because I can just imagine Evans holding back laughing while doing that line.  Then we have him ending up with Peggy, which was a perfect end to his arc, but is it really his ending? He was old in the comics once as well, and ran Shield for a while ;) More on Capt at the end.

 

Widow-I was surprised Widow died so early, but what she did makes total sense in her overall arc. The Avengers/Clint's family are the people who made her change from what she was. She gave her life to save them all.

 

Thor-Hemsworth was born to play this part, and the DUDE version was amazing.  I really hope he is in GotG 3, because teamed up with Rocket cracks me up. The final scene with Quill about who was captain is comedic gold.

 

Ant-Man-Just give it up to Paul Rudd as Scott Lang, I hope he is in a lot more MCU going forward. Can't get enough of the character. 

 

Hulk-I do have to agree on the Hulk. I thought he would have a much bigger presence in the fight vs Thanos. I was never a big fan of the "Smart Hulk" character from the comics.

 

Nebula-I was not surprised about her being a main player at all. She was a major character in the Infinity Gauntlet comic series, actually the one who gets the Gauntlet away from Thanos.  I hope she has a big part in GOTG3, and Avengers going forward, as Karen G is a terrific actor, and has nailed this character.

 

Rocket-Between his making fun of others, and people making fun of him I could not stop laughing. The two that really cracked me up were Tony's build a bear comment,  and the Asgardian screaming "Get the Rabbit"

 

Past characters-This film really was a love letter to all the movies that came before it, and it is amazing work by them to get so many people to come back (Lady Syf where are you?) . I was totally shocked they got Natalie Portman to show up after the falling out that happened because of Dark World. The one character I wish had a cameo was Coulson, but the Agents of Shield ending from last season kind of does not allow it. 

 

The last 40ish minutes-The entire sequence is something I have dreamed about watching on the big screen since I was a kid. When they cut to the far shot of Capt vs Thanos entire army I had that same feeling I had when the Riders of Rohan arrived in Return of the King. That shot is amazing, and I want poster of that. I had goosebumps, I got emotional, and then you hear sam on the radio saying "On your left",the first portal opens,I frankly lost my shit at that point. The other characters and armies arrived, Capt finally says Avengers Assemble -Phil, our friend Lendell and I all cheered out loud, as did the entire crowd and it was fucking amazing. I can not wait to see this again tonight. When it comes out on video I may just leave it on loop for year.

 

More thoughts as they come to me.

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OMG, the previews of posts in this thread show up in my feed.  It would be nice if you wrapped stuff in spoiler tags anyway because of that.  At least until the end of the weekend!

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8 minutes ago, foogledricks said:

OMG, the previews of posts in this thread show up in my feed.  It would be nice if you wrapped stuff in spoiler tags anyway because of that.  At least until the end of the weekend!

 

It’s not supposed to, I put everything in tags for ya.

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Spoiler

"Stop that rabbit!"

 

"Until just now I thought you were a Build-a-Bear"

 

"Someone peed in my suit.  I'm not sure if it was baby me, or old me.  Or maybe just me me."

 

:D

 

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Parts I found confusing mostly relate to the time travel and a few missing characters...

 



Timeline stuff

So old Nebula and new Nebula co-existed in the same time and space until new Nebula kills her old self. She’s the only Nebula now right? How is she affected (or not) when Cap returns the stones to their original timelines? Related to this, there is only 1 Gomorrah now right? But she slips away at the end of the movie so, does this rewrite Guardians 1 effectively? Is all Guardians stuff going to be new/different now?

 

When they jumped back in time Loki grabbed the tesseract and disappeared. Is he alive again now? Or still dead? We never see him again (as far as we know) and I couldn’t help but wonder what happened when Cap goes back to put the stones back.

 

Is Thor’s mom still alive now? Did this change anything with Odin? They don’t go into it and I get that they can’t cover all of the characters but, I was immediately wondering about the whole Thor family situation when they go back for Jane and the stone.

 

Missing characters

They mention Black Widow and that they couldn’t bring her back but, no one mentions Vision. Is he still dead-dead? I was also looking for Coulson specifically but, the Shield TV show covers this I guess. 

 

Thats it for now - will post an update after I see it again 

 

 

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Anyone know what the deal with the sounds at the end of the credits was? Almost sounded like a forge building something.

 

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43 minutes ago, Magness said:

Parts I found confusing mostly relate to the time travel and a few missing characters...

 

 

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Thoughts below.


Timeline stuff

So old Nebula and new Nebula co-existed in the same time and space until new Nebula kills her old self. She’s the only Nebula now right? How is she affected (or not) when Cap returns the stones to their original timelines? Related to this, there is only 1 Gomorrah now right? But she slips away at the end of the movie so, does this rewrite Guardians 1 effectively? Is all Guardians stuff going to be new/different now?

Guardians are all the same expect Gamora, who is now Pre-Guardians Gamora.


When they jumped back in time Loki grabbed the tesseract and disappeared. Is he alive again now? Or still dead? We never see him again (as far as we know) and I couldn’t help but wonder what happened when Cap goes back to put the stones back.

Loki is dead.


Is Thor’s mom still alive now? Did this change anything with Odin? They don’t go into it and I get that they can’t cover all of the characters but, I was immediately wondering about the whole Thor family situation when they go back for Jane and the stone.
I assume Thor's Mom is dead as she was before, I was thinking about how Thor took Molnir from a different timeline and how that would work for that Thor to not have Molnir, but then Cap brought that back too, smart!
 


Missing characters

They mention Black Widow and that they couldn’t bring her back but, no one mentions Vision. Is he still dead-dead? I was also looking for Coulson specifically but, the Shield TV show covers this I guess. 

Vision is dead, they brought back those who died from the snap, he died pre-snap. Same with Loki.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Timeline stuff

So old Nebula and new Nebula co-existed in the same time and space until new Nebula kills her old self. She’s the only Nebula now right? How is she affected (or not) when Cap returns the stones to their original timelines? Related to this, there is only 1 Gomorrah now right? But she slips away at the end of the movie so, does this rewrite Guardians 1 effectively? Is all Guardians stuff going to be new/different now?

Guardians are all the same expect Gamora, who is now Pre-Guardians Gamora.

 

Additionally Banner said that when they go back in time, it's still in their personal future, which is why they couldn't go back and do whatever that was (strangle, rip in half, combination of both) to Baby Thanos, because it wouldn't affect the Here-and-Now Thanos. 

 

At least that's the way I understood it.

 

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4 hours ago, NickC said:

 

Spoiler

I wondered this as well. Loki being dead with a show coming up doesn’t make sense.   

 

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Alternate Time Lines. Its the entire point of the conversation of Bruce and the Sorcerer Supreme. They can’t change their own future by tweaking the past because it already happened. However alternate timelines can occur. Steve could live with Peggy in the past, thus creating a new timeline. Thanos snap was not a natural thing, the other deaths were. Thus why they could bring the snap people back.

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Ok that’s interesting - thanks for the posts guys. 



So, Angel already asked about Loki but how does the Black Widow movie work now? An alternate timeline thing? Same for Wanda/Vision?

 

Also, going forward Sam is Captain America now right? Does that change the Falcon/Winter Soldier series? The possibility is certainly open for Steve to return and be de-aged or something but Sam eventually gets the super soldier serum in the comics doesn’t he - so maybe it’s going that way? This is more conjecture than anything explicitly in the movie but, all these things are running through my head since seeing it.

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We might find out the answers to a lot of these questions after "Far From Home" comes out, and they reveal the Phase 4 roadmap (or part of it.)

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The black widow movie was always rumored to be a prequel, same with the Loki Disney + series. The others your guess is as good as mine. We will be getting new details after Far From home. Feige has said there may be movies/series in different time periods, and that they tied directly into what has come before and what will be coming in the films.

Edited by JoeyN

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Did they create a new timeline though? That was part of why they returned the stones, sorcerer supreme told banner they would create fragmented timelines if they didn't, that would fix one reality but not the others.

 

I also think that when present Steve Rodgers went into the past to live with Peggy, he never returned, instead he grew old to the point where they were in the timeline and they see him waiting there, which brings up even more questions I guess, its a lot to take in.

 

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she said it would destroy her timeline. Alt Time lines branch all the time, I wish they put the Stargate episode where Carter explains this better then I ever could. Lol. They went back to the battle of ny, but created a new timeline when Loki took to teseract. They then had to travel back again taking it from the past. They may return it to their period it was taken from, but some things still changed.

 

I thought the same thing about Steve at first, but then it causes all sorts of issues in the main MCU if they can’t change their timeline.

 

I am looking forward to watching again in a few hours to listen to her more closely.

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I'd argue the expectation of losing Tony doesn't hinder the film one little bit as far as the emotional stakes were concerned. For me, his loss was strengthened by the fact the film gave him a life with Pepper and a daughter. That got me immediately when his circumstances five-years later were revealed as, actually, my first fear was whatever he does to win and bring the others back might erase that little girl from existence, and how crushing that would be. The film instead lovingly gives him the gift of having had some time to live that life, and that it likewise did the same for Cap by allowing him to finally have that dance....

 

giphy.gif

 

Of all the characters, Tony and Steve arguably had given up the most to become who they were. Tony regularly drove himself to the point of self-destruction, and Steve, despite technically being as old as he is, never had the chance to live a life at all. I wouldn't have guessed that the film would remedy any of that, but it does, and it's so damn touching. Downey and Evans are truly exceptional in this film.

 

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I'm reading this thread, and all I can think about is this.

 


 

 

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On second viewing, what I thought was correct. She says her reality would be hurt, not Bruce’s, because without the time stone her reality would become a bad offshoot and get invaded by evil forces.Which is why he promises to return them to the point they were taken so those bad realities do not happen. Yet there are still off shoots by other small things that happen. For example the offshoot that Thanos left, actually got the best deal of them all in the end. Xandar , Earth and all the other places were never attacked.

 


 Which leads to something I wish we saw. Capt returning the Soul Stone, so he would run into the Red Skull.

 
 

 

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4 hours ago, JoeyN said:
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Which leads to something I wish we saw. Capt returning the Soul Stone, so he would run into the Red Skull.

 
 

 

 

Oh man - I SO want to see that now :)

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8 hours ago, JoeyN said:
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On second viewing, what I thought was correct. She says her reality would be hurt, not Bruce’s, because without the time stone her reality would become a bad offshoot and get invaded by evil forces.Which is why he promises to return them to the point they were taken so those bad realities do not happen. Yet there are still off shoots by other small things that happen. For example the offshoot that Thanos left, actually got the best deal of them all in the end. Xandar , Earth and all the other places were never attacked.

 


 Which leads to something I wish we saw. Capt returning the Soul Stone, so he would run into the Red Skull.

 
 

 

 

Spoiler

Yeah, you're correct, there's multiple timelines now since past Thanos (prior to GotG) was destroyed and Loki/Ronan/Vision/ETC would probably be alive in that timeline. 

 

And good point about returning the Soul Stone and Red Skull, that would be something to see.

 

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8 hours ago, JoeyN said:
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On second viewing, what I thought was correct. She says her reality would be hurt, not Bruce’s, because without the time stone her reality would become a bad offshoot and get invaded by evil forces.Which is why he promises to return them to the point they were taken so those bad realities do not happen. Yet there are still off shoots by other small things that happen. For example the offshoot that Thanos left, actually got the best deal of them all in the end. Xandar , Earth and all the other places were never attacked.

Spoiler

Had my second viewing earlier this morning but I still need to revisit the Ancient One’s explanation.  

 

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Is there a theory as to what happened to Gamora after Tony’s snap?  She’s not at Tony’s Memorial.  

 

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