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Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread

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she must have left, she was not on the ship with the Asgardians of The Galaxy either. That version did not know Tony at all.

 

 

I also said it when the movie came out. Age of Ultron is a major part of everything that happened after it.

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I belly laughed at the “Asguardians of the Galaxy” pun. Presumably Thor is now destined to be part of vol3? Kind of wish Korg was with them as I’m not sure when we’ll ever see him or Valkyrie again.

 

God bless them for leaving Thor in the physical shape he’s in for the entire movie too. I was waiting for a training montage or some kind of magic to resolve it but thankfully neither occurred.

 

I’d very much like to see the film again next week just for the pleasure of it. I don’t think I’ve ever gone to see any of these films theatrically twice (aside from Civil War which I saw again so I could take my brother). 

 

It will be sad to see Markus, McFeeley and the Russo’s move on from the MCU.

 

While many, rightly, heap praise on the Russo’s you really have to acknowledge Markus and McFeely’s extraordinary contribution. They must be delighted to have brought closure to Cap’s story arc that they’ve been writing since the very start. Watching the Cap trilogy recently really reminded me of the magic trick they’ve pulled off here. It was hard not to feel touched by every little callback to Cap’s past in Endgame. If I wasn’t so British and reserved Falcon’s “Cap.... on your left” moment over the radio would have left me joyously sobbing and punching the air in delight. I made do with a Cheshire Cat grin. 😀

 

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Why are we still putting spoilers in a spoiler thread? Enough. Talk openly. If you haven’t seen the movie yet....tough shit. Stay out of the thread and/or forum until you do.

 

I loved the movie. Loved all of the smaller character moments along with the big ones. I’ve seen it twice and have plenty to say but it’s late.

 

My favorite silly moment is Cap fighting himself during the NY time trip and after initially getting his butt kicked, hearing his younger version say “I can do this all day.” His reaction - the “Yeah, yeah I know” got a smile out of me both times. 

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For some reason Keith was still seeing stuff out of tags in his feed. I honestly have no idea why since Cam fixed the problem of spoiler thread posts showing up in the posts preview window box a long time ago now.

 

I had the same reaction to that line callback. 😀

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That is exactly why I put the stuff in spoiler tags. In case there was a glitch so people do not see spoilers in their feeds.

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I have so much to say about this movie.  But the most important is this.

 

If you can't change your current timeline by going back in time and changing the past, then how did Steve Rogers do what he did at the end.  He went back in time, and stayed there.  Him staying there should have no effect on the current timeline.  He could have killed ELVIS and it would have NO EFFECT on the current timeline.  So him living in the past all the way to the present wouldn't include him sitting on the bench the way he was.  So, huh?

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Keith there is a big reason that Ancient One scene is there explaining alternate timelines and realities, as well as the Time Travel film discussion a bunch of the Avengers have. Steve did not live in the past of the main MCU , he was in an alternate timeline. Otherwise everything in the main MCU would be changed.  Just like how when younger Thanos traveled to the future, there is now a Timeline that Thanos did none of the stuff that happened after the first GOTG film.  Don't make me start drawing diagrams 😀

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10 minutes ago, JoeyN said:

Keith there is a big reason that Ancient One scene is there explaining alternate timelines and realities, as well as the Time Travel film discussion a bunch of the Avengers have. Steve did not live in the past of the main MCU , he was in an alternate timeline. Otherwise everything in the main MCU would be changed.  Just like how when younger Thanos traveled to the future, there is now a Timeline that Thanos did none of the stuff that happened after the first GOTG film.  Don't make me start drawing diagrams 😀

OK, so where did he come from?  Oh I get it.  He was supposed to press the button after a few hours of putting the infinity stones back.  Instead he waited 70 years to press the button?  So nothing weird happened.  Nothing complicated.  Everything went exactly as it was supppsed to.  Just 70 years later rather than 3 hours later.  If so my only question is, how is he on the bench and not on the time travel platform?  And why doesn't he have the suit on.

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Really did enjoy Silvestri's score for this one. Album is missing a fair bit despite its 2hr running time, inc the nice references he made to Pinar Toprak's Captain Marvel theme and Christophe Beck's Ant-Man theme, though I understand why they were left off (nice that Silvestri personally worked them into his score though rather than having them track in cues from the scores to the relevant movies). 

 

Some nice callbacks to his Avengers score, the most obvious being the bombastic reprise of his 'assemble' theme from the first film.

 

4mins 10s:

 

1min 41s:

 

 

He also directly quotes  a passage from the end of his Captain America score to compliment the end of Steve's story beautifully. So the same piece scored Steve's sad and happy endings. 

 

 

 

1rMa.gif

 

 

And I almost, ALMOST got the callback I wanted to what I always took to be Silvestri's Iron Man fanfare. You don't get the fanfare itself in Endgame, but you do get to hear the accompanying melody from the second time he used it in The Avengers (you could take it to be two parts of a phrase, with the fanfare being the answer).

 

2mins 10s:

 

 

1min 14s:

 

That genuinely made me smile in the cinema.

 

On a general note, I love how much fun this cue is:

 

 

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Will have to grab the score. 

 

The only aspect of the whole time travel shenanigans I’m not sure about is one that isn’t even really a time travel question; when Steve returns the Soul Stone does he not free whoever is traded for it? For this whole system to have a set of rules like that suggests it’s not the first time the Stone has been kept there. 

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All I can say is the Markus/McFeely/Russo brothers audio commentaries on the blu-rays have been consistently insightful so perhaps their Endgame track will go into some detail on their thinking on all of that, or perhaps we should just make do with the Austin Powers excuse that Looper also told us not to think too much about. 

 

Who else knew Hope/Wasp to bring her through the portal to the final fight? I couldn't be bothered to allow myself to be troubled by such things. It was too much silly fun to watch. :)  (having said that actually, did Falcon meet her in the first Ant-Man? I forget now, but even if he did since he'd been dusted how would he have known she had been too? You can pick holes in the sort of thing til the cows come home. It doesn't really get us anywhere important in the grand scheme of things, though I guess we might assume it was Strange who assembled them all in the end? The bloody know it all. Does he even ask "is that everyone?" I forget. Keen to see it again).   Ignore me. Of course it was all him. I'm tired.

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2 hours ago, foogledricks said:

OK, so where did he come from?  Oh I get it.  He was supposed to press the button after a few hours of putting the infinity stones back.  Instead he waited 70 years to press the button?  So nothing weird happened.  Nothing complicated.  Everything went exactly as it was supppsed to.  Just 70 years later rather than 3 hours later.  If so my only question is, how is he on the bench and not on the time travel platform?  And why doesn't he have the suit on.

 

Because like when Steve and Tony traveled back from 2012 Battle of NY to further in the past , they just use the bracelets to jump around while in the past.  They need the machine to start the original jump to lock on, and then the return jump after they left because that is now 5 seconds in the future they were not a part of. Steve could jump from wherever he was as an old man with peggy to any point before he left the main MCU. He could jump in a few min or hours before that moment, never triggering the return jump to the platform.

 

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1 hour ago, iainl said:

Will have to grab the score. 

 

The only aspect of the whole time travel shenanigans I’m not sure about is one that isn’t even really a time travel question; when Steve returns the Soul Stone does he not free whoever is traded for it? For this whole system to have a set of rules like that suggests it’s not the first time the Stone has been kept there. 

 

That is a big question that may never get answered, but I always assumed once the person died they were gone. Maybe we will get an answer  in GoTG3: The Search for Gamora. :) Also Steve would come face to face with the red skull if he brought it exactly back where it was taken from, which would be a great scene. 

 

I am looking forward to seeing the Russo's interviewed/commentary tracks, as they do some great chats about their marvel films. 

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Daniel it had to be Doctor strange, as he said to Wong "Is that everyone". Falcon did not know about the other Asgardians on Earth, Sorcerers, Nova Corp, Wasp, think there were a few Ravagers, etc

 

I've had the End Game soundtrack on rotation all day. Love how they reuse the same stuff from Infinity War for Endgame and they have a bit of different meaning this time around, especially the dusting part.

 

There are far too many little easter eggs and line call backs to past films to list, and comics, but here are a few people may have missed to did not know 

 

1-The young man from the funeral, is the kid who helped tony in Iron Man 3

2-Picking up Papa Stark in the past was James D'Arcy back as Jarvis from the Agent Carter TV series. Had a big smile on my face when he turned up

3-Joe Russo was the man at the support group in the beginning talking about dating for the first time since his boyfriend was dusted.  

4-Jim Starlin writer of the Infinity Gauntlet comic, and many great Marvel events was also part of that support group

5-In Battle of NY aftermath, The doctor that the strike team mentions they are going to bring the scepter to is the doctor from start of Age of Ultron who created Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver. 

6-Asgardians of the Galaxy has been an actual comic. Please let Thor be in GoTG 3

 

 

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As much as I love Captain America with the Hammer, in Thor 3 their pivot on the purpose and function of the hammer (i.e. "Are you the god of hammers.  It was never the source of your power.  It only helped you focus it.") screws them with the Captain America moment.  If indeed lightening does not come from the hammer, and instead from Thor himself, then they just contradicted themselves.  They also contradicted themselves in Thor 3 saying that Asgard was the source of Thor's power, as well as Hela's source of her power.  Then they retreated from that idea saying that Asgard isn't a place, it is a people, disregarding the significance of the physical planet as a mystical source of power.  Does Thor get his power from his people, from his now gone planet, or neither, just from his genetics?  In which case once again, how is Captain America calling lightening?  They kind of made the origins of Thor's power kind of a mess.

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12 minutes ago, JoeyN said:

Daniel it had to be Doctor strange, as he said to Wong "Is that everyone". Falcon did not know about the other Asgardians on Earth, Sorcerers, Nova Corp, Wasp, think there were a few Ravagers, etc

 

Right, right. I’ve never locked down what Strange can do power wise, or perhaps I should say what he can’t do. Presumably he could astral project to all these places/people at once to explain things and to bring them through, and that because he effectively sees and knows everything he knew who to find and where to find them? 

 

I did enjoy all the women grouping together during the chaotic battle (it’s a wonderful visual fuck off to the misogynists), but I do feel the film’s great flaw is that we never see enough of them. Wanda gets a moment, sure, but since her relationship with Vision was barely established to begin with it’s difficult to be invested in what his loss meant to her as she went to dust moments after his demise and then is only back for 40seconds here (I don’t want to have to think about a TV series that doesn’t exist yet that might retroactively make me care more about them, likewise a Black Window Movie retroactively trying to add some weight that her demise lacked).

 

Stranger for me though was Pepper’s lack of screen-time because after the five years later time jump it was taking so long for her to show up after establishing Stark and his daughter that I almost thought it was going to shockingly reveal Tony had married and had a kid with someone else. Stranger still though has to be how little screen time Captain Marvel had, after all that build up. She’s barely allowed to be a character here. I’ve since learned Larson shot this before her standalone film so it might be fair to argue that nobody yet knew for sure how the character was going to be established. I know she’ll have plenty of presence going forward, and I know some could also say that Endgame only had so much time to play with (which is true) but it’s weird how - Nebula aside - none of the women really had any rewarding moments. 

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Someone here said they could have done with less fan service.  If you subtract all the fan service, I think this movie falls pretty flat.  The fan service was kind of overt at times.  But those moments were the moments that kept this movie above water in my opinion.  I thought the movie was weighed down by some pacing problems and I found the actual plot to be somewhat mediocre.  It was the character moments, fan-service, call-backs, and pay-offs that made the somewhat weak plot OK.  Infinity War, while also heavily reliant on your knowledge of previous movies, was way more stand-alone of an experience than this movie.  My wife said she wanted to see it and I told her NO WAY.  You will not like this movie.  You have to see the other movies to appreciate 50% of this movie.

 

AS A FAN, I adored so much of this movie.  I was laughing and cheering more than anyone else in the theater through the whole thing.  I only wish they didn't do the professor Hulk plot.  It was only good for a few cheap jokes.  Hulk is one of my favorite characters in the MCU.  And he really wasn't in either of the two last Avenger movies.  And that makes me sad.

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Yeah Larson filmed it all before hand, which is kind of incredible really. I thought they handled her drop in and out pretty well,  to keep the film mostly about the original avengers, yet introducing her to the bigger MCU going forward. She mentioned at the start of the 5 year jump that she would not be back around for at least the next month. It did take her 3 weeks after the snap to run into Tony/Nebula, and then longer after that to return him to earth, so arriving right when the big battle was happening was not a big stretch. 

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5 minutes ago, foogledricks said:

As much as I love Captain America with the Hammer, in Thor 3 their pivot on the purpose and function of the hammer (i.e. "Are you the god of hammers.  It was never the source of your power.  It only helped you focus it.") screws them with the Captain America moment.  If indeed lightening does not come from the hammer, and instead from Thor himself, then they just contradicted themselves.  

 

Isn’t Mjolnir effectively just established to be a sword in the stone plot device in the MCU? That which can only be wielded by the purest of hearts?

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6 minutes ago, Angry the Clown said:

I did enjoy all the women grouping together during the chaotic battle (it’s a wonderful visual fuck off to the misogynists)

This moment was cool, but weird.  In Infinity War, it really made sense and was an emotional moment when Black Widow says "She's not alone" and they do a three on one girl on girl battle to the death.  I've watched that scene at least 8 times now, and it gives me chills every time.  It felt like an earned moment.  Felt real.  This scene in End Game seemed gratuitous.  I felt they might as well put actual text on the screen GIRL POWER.  Was a little forced.  But since the whole last scene was just big action porn, I can't say it didn't fit in with the shotgun style scene of firing fun at the screen.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Angry the Clown said:

 

Isn’t Mjolnir effectively just established to be a sword in the stone plot device in the MCU? That which can only be wielded by the purest of hearts?

 

Yeah It is a powerful weapon still, and has powers of its own that were part of it's design.  Odin even says that whoever is worthy can wield it and have the power of thor.. Steve made it move a little in Age of Ultron. Thor has certain powers without it, but there is a reason why he went to get Storm breaker in Infinity War.  Also they never said all every Asgardian powers were tied to there, only Hella.

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Quote

Isn’t Mjolnir effectively just established to be a sword in the stone plot device in the MCU? That which can only be wielded by the purest of hearts?

3 minutes ago, JoeyN said:

Odin even says that whoever is worthy can wield it and have the power of thor.

Right, and then Odin contradicts that in Thor 3 by saying that it was never the source of your power.  So, I'm aware that Odin said that first, and then contradicted it in Thor 3, and you seem to be ignoring what he said in Thor 3 in favor of what was said in Thor 1.  That's my point.  It is a mess.

 

That being said, Captain wielding the hammer was literally my favorite part of this movie.

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4 minutes ago, foogledricks said:

 

Right, and then Odin contradicts that in Thor 3 by saying that it was never the source of your power.  So, I'm aware that Odin said that first, and then contradicted it in Thor 3, and you seem to be ignoring what he said in Thor 3 in favor of what was said in Thor 1.  That's my point.  It is a mess.

 

It's not a contradiction. It's not the source of his main power, he still can control lightning somewhat, super strength, long life , etc. However He can't fly without it, and it makes him more powerful then when he is without it. Think of it as a battery that is supercharging him.

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21 minutes ago, JoeyN said:

Yeah Larson filmed it all before hand, which is kind of incredible really. I thought they handled her drop in and out pretty well,  to keep the film mostly about the original avengers, yet introducing her to the bigger MCU going forward. She mentioned at the start of the 5 year jump that she would not be back around for at least the next month. It did take her 3 weeks after the snap to run into Tony/Nebula, and then longer after that to return him to earth, so arriving right when the big battle was happening was not a big stretch. 

 

What have I missed that explains the timeline of her flying from a to b? Where does Captain Marvel’s post credit scene where she shows up asking about Fury fit into it all? I assume Steve and Natascha told her to go find him. (I do wonder if Captain Marvel’s end credit scene was in fact a fragment of a scene the Russo’s had already decided to cut from Endgame).

 

17 minutes ago, foogledricks said:

This moment was cool, but weird.  In Infinity War, it really made sense and was an emotional moment when Black Widow says "She's not alone" and they do a three on one girl on girl battle to the death.  I've watched that scene at least 8 times now, and it gives me chills every time.  It felt like an earned moment.  Felt real.  This scene in End Game seemed gratuitous.  I felt they might as well put actual text on the screen GIRL POWER.  Was a little forced.

 

 

 

It is on the nose, but that was surely the point. It just felt like just a glorious middle finger to online trolls, but I still would have appreciated it more had those characters had a chance to have some presence in the movie. Again though, I do acknowledge they’re at least characters we’ll see more of in future.

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"What have I missed that explains the timeline of her flying from a to b? 

 

On getting back to earth the first time-Fury set off the beeper when the snap was happening,  and Tony said he was on the ship for 21 days or so, so it took her a while to get to that point, and then had to fly on to earth.

 

Then setting up showing up at the end-Right after the 5 years time jump  Natasha is talking to Nebula/Rocket, Carol, Rhodes and Okoye on the holo viewer.  Natasha says to Carol " are you going to be back next month" or something along those lines, and she responds no she has stuff going on  and it will be longer then that. 

 

 

As for the scene from post Captain Marvel, its another one they just put in there as a tease. There was another movie that had a teaser that was different in the film scene

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