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Spider-man: Miles Morales (PS4, PS5) (Holiday 2020)


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1 hour ago, Angry the Clown said:

The funny thing with the Spider-man remaster is... was anyone really asking for it? This big budget late generation SIE games already look outstanding, particularly the Pro versions, and I'm honestly not sure how much is worth improving beyond raising/locking frame rates, native 4k resolutions or allowing for a things like performance and higher presentation modes on a current gen version to effectively be rolled into one via a next-gen patch (which is basically what MS are doing with Forza Horizon 4 and some others for example). I'm not really sure I want devs to be spending too much time remastering already fantastic looking games that have only come out within the last 2-3 years.

 

 

Aren’t you the same guy who earlier was hesitant to play any late-gen first-party PS4 titles (Ghost of Tsushima, The Last of Us Part II) on the PS5 because you feared that they might release a remastered version or a patch to take advantage of the PS5?

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Ending spoilers for the first game....     I literally spat my drink out when I saw that. LMAO!

Jason Schreier is saying the game is Lost Legacy-ish in scope if you’re comparing to the original Spider-Man. It’s a full game but it’s shorter and a bridge to Spidey 2.  

4k/60fps "performance mode" is a go:        

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3 minutes ago, JFo said:

 

Aren’t you the same guy who earlier was hesitant to play any late-gen first-party PS4 titles (Ghost of Tsushima, The Last of Us Part II) on the PS5 because you feared that they might release a remastered version or a patch to take advantage of the PS5?


Right? Why wait for PS5 enhancements, then.  If we’re following the Spider-Man logic, just play the already released games since they are “good enough” which is essentially what’s being said. I don’t understand the “ nobody asked for that” perspective. I mean nobody (literally nobody) asked for a Maneater patch but fuck I’m happy we’re getting one!

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1 hour ago, Romier S said:


I think there’s enough evidence of people expecting some form of upgrade to previous gen titles whether that appears as a patch or a remaster. I would say that applies to Spider-Man which was one of Sony’s most successful titles. I think you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think there’s an audience for a version of that game that theoretically brings it up to snuff with what they’re doing with Miles  Morales visually. It’s a perfectly enticing carrot on a stick if you’re choosing between the standard and ultimate versions for $20. 
 

Remove the cost variable and I could ask the same question about say Gears 5? Who’s asking for that to get remastered at 120hz? The X version is beautiful and runs extremely well already at high resolution. Who was clamoring for that? A little while ago Digital Foundry did a video of how Spider-Man would look running at 60fps - go look at the response to that video.

 

1 hour ago, JFo said:

 

Aren’t you the same guy who earlier was hesitant to play any late-gen first-party PS4 titles (Ghost of Tsushima, The Last of Us Part II) on the PS5 because you feared that they might release a remastered version or a patch to take advantage of the PS5?

 

1 hour ago, Romier S said:


Right? Why wait for PS5 enhancements, then.  If we’re following the Spider-Man logic, just play the already released games since they are “good enough” which is essentially what’s being said. I don’t understand the “ nobody asked for that” perspective. I mean nobody (literally nobody) asked for a Maneater patch but fuck I’m happy we’re getting one!

 

Patched enhancements, remasters, remakes... I'm not dismissing any of these things. I embrace them all. Hell, I just listed off Spyro, Crash and Tony Hawks remasters as titles I'll be playing on my PS5! I also had those mid-gen consoles for a reason, and continue to praise Microsoft endlessly for the efforts they put into enhanced performance of not just contemporary games, but games dating back eighteen years ago (Fusion Frenzy's getting A.I driven HDR enhancements on the Series X for goodness sake!). It's one of the biggest reasons I've taken such a shine to what the Xbox platform has to offer these days, especially since I'm regularly late to the party when it comes to playing games everyone has raved about.

 

My point regarding Spider-man's remaster is that I was certainly aware of how much eagerness there was for something like a 4k/60 patch of the game on PS5. That would have been great. We're not getting that. We're getting a next-gen remaster instead, which is also great, only many don't seem to think it's THAT great because like the original Last of Us it's a separate game for a next-gen system, with new trophies and no cross-gen save, and they're being asked to pay for it... and weirdly it was OK then, but not now? I never declared that nobody was asking for this. Given the divisive response to this particular title however, I was merely asking a sincere question as to whether people were actually craving a pretty substantial paid remaster of a two and a half year old game, when many would have been delighted with a 4k/60 patch for the existing PS4 executable file.

 

The hesitancy with regards to those aforementioned titles is, from the perspective of never having played them before, if the choice were there to pick an enhanced version from the outset then it would be obvious to pick the better version. Little sense my buying the original release of Devil May Cry 5 for example, having never bought or played it, when I know the Special Edition will exist, right?  Because Sony's choosing not to discuss anything in the way of PS4 game performance on PS5 it's sort of left as a guessing game as what major titles might be left with their native performance, what might be enhanced by virtue of the PS5's power, what might be patched, what might be remastered and sold over. Again, to look at many of these games already you needn't think much needs enhancing beyond the way MS are enhancing their titles by no longer having to make players make a choice between higher graphical fidelity or better frame rate). On the one hand one could look at the Spider-man remaster and assume that will be Sony's method of choice for serving up better versions of their PS4 heavy hitters, but on the other hand one might think that actually Spider-man is something of an exception since they can take the engine updates done for the forthcoming game that was already in development and apply them to the original (which is what makes me think that of all the big SIE titles, Horizon might be the most obvious example to get a similar treatment). 

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PS3 to PS4 is a completely diffeeent architecture, though. This generation, for both Sony and Microsoft, is simply replacing one AMD APU with a better one. Being asked to pay serious cash money to unlock the frame rate and maybe a HD texture pack seems unreasonable, while the kind of major overhaul of the VFX that actually justifies charging for a new game like DMC or Spidey does leave me vaguely with Dan on the “is this really necessary?” thought. 
 

But we’re both people merrily replacing Blu-Ray releases with UHDs, so I don’t know we’re hugely consistent on this. 

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27 minutes ago, iainl said:

PS3 to PS4 is a completely diffeeent architecture, though. This generation, for both Sony and Microsoft, is simply replacing one AMD APU with a better one. Being asked to pay serious cash money to unlock the frame rate and maybe a HD texture pack seems unreasonable, while the kind of major overhaul of the VFX that actually justifies charging for a new game like DMC or Spidey does leave me vaguely with Dan on the “is this really necessary?” thought. 
 

But we’re both people merrily replacing Blu-Ray releases with UHDs, so I don’t know we’re hugely consistent on this. 

 

I have to assume another point that upsets people about Spider-Man is that they can point to CD Project Red and screech about them doing next-gen updates for not just Cyberpunk, but Witcher 3 too, for nothing. There's always going to be discourse when there's no consistency between the way devs/publishers handle these kind of things. I genuinely don't think we can say there's a right or wrong way either. Certainly there's a way we might prefer, but I keep reading about the expense of implementing ray tracing, which Spider-Man is doing, and Devil May Cry 5 Special Edition is doing... but then so's that Witcher 3 upgrade. I don't think any of Microsoft's first party patches are adding it except for Minecraft. I want to say Gears 5 too though?

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I'd say there are things, like DLC, remasters, releases on rival platforms, patches... etc... that a publisher of a popular game can do that regardless of whether those actions are money-makers or not, nurture their consumers positive consciousness of the product and brand. That has a nebulous value that is hard to quantify.

 

So if Sony offered free enhanced editions of their most popular franchises, it is hard to know if the costs out-weight the benefits (brand awareness, positive consumer sentiment, positive press). And if Sony offers enhanced editions for a price, it is also hard to know if that revenue is a net positive over the dev costs and the negative consumer sentiment and negative press.

 

This is why it is good that we continue to have 3 players in this space. So we can compare these motherfuckers. And they can compare each other.

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- Updated city’s environments
- Improved models and materials
- Ray-traced reflections and ambient shadows
- New skies and weather effects
- Upgraded Characters (higher fidelity skin, eye, and teeth shaders to individually-rendered strands of hair – Also uses a new facial capture tech)
- Peter Parker Face Recast (from John Bubniak to Ben Jordan – Insomniac says it happend to get a better match to Peter Parker/Spider-Man actor Yuri Lowenthal’s facial capture)
- 60fps Performance Mode
- Near-instant loading (you can turn back on the fast-travel animations)
- Spatial 3D Audio on compatible headphones
- Haptic feedback and adaptive triggers support
- New photomode features (you can now place lights in the environment and change your suit after you’ve lined up your shot)
- New suits

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I feel like we went thru the same thing leading up to the PS4 launch where they just did not discuss much of anything nor did they make consoles available until just a couple of weeks before launch. But it really stands out this time with MS being very transparent about everything except the games, which is the only thing Sony has been showing off. 
 

It doesn’t help Sony seems all over the place. They are charging a price for Spider-Man but not Horizon or Miles. You can carry over saves for some games but not others. And no mention of Last of Us or Ghost. A little clarity would be nice, if they haven’t been paying attention, the competition just spent 7.5 billion dollars, they might want to get their shit together.

 

And sorry, I know that probably belongs more in the PS5 thread. So I will just say, on paper, those upgrades to Spider-Man sound really nice. Is it worth the extra money? Who knows, but I’m going pay the extra cost.

 

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39 minutes ago, Paul said:

I feel like we went thru the same thing leading up to the PS4 launch where they just did not discuss much of anything nor did they make consoles available until just a couple of weeks before launch. But it really stands out this time with MS being very transparent about everything except the games, which is the only thing Sony has been showing off. 
 

It doesn’t help Sony seems all over the place. They are charging a price for Spider-Man but not Horizon or Miles. You can carry over saves for some games but not others. And no mention of Last of Us or Ghost. A little clarity would be nice, if they haven’t been paying attention, the competition just spent 7.5 billion dollars, they might want to get their shit together.

 

And sorry, I know that probably belongs more in the PS5 thread. So I will just say, on paper, those upgrades to Spider-Man sound really nice. Is it worth the extra money? Who knows, but I’m going pay the extra cost.

 


Sony get your shit together! *In the middle of a surprise preorder debacle, the PS5 proceeds to sell out within minutes*

 

giphy.gif

 

I applaud Microsoft for their transparency and the previews we’ve gotten with regard to their hardware. It’s great! They’re absolutely eating Sony’s lunch with regard to how they’ve marketed their hardware since the price leak. I’d love to see more about the PS5 and additional clarity on all of things you’re saying and the good news is that we’ve got a full month left to see more (and we’re going to see YouTubers in Japan getting hardware October 4th) but guess what? Microsoft buying Bethesda means exactly fuck all in so far as demand is concerned with the PS5 for the next year or so. Both these consoles are going to sell out and the reality is that Sony has spent its time highlighting the first party games you’re going to be playing on day one. I’m committed to buying a Series X but it’s going to be a backwards compatibility box because they have yet to show me a new game running on the hardware that I care enough about to buy. That dynamic hasn’t changed.

 

In the interim, I find it ironic that we just got a big blog post detailing the work on the remaster and the rejoinder is “Why aren’t we getting more info?!”. ;)

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I preferred the prior Peter — he looked more like a college kid or twenty something than a high school dork. That said, I’m not sure I would have too much of a problem with this version if I was unaware of the prior incarnation.

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1 hour ago, Angry the Clown said:

That's a radical re-design for Peter. Have they said what prompted that decision?

 

From Romier's post above:

 

2 hours ago, Romier S said:

- Peter Parker Face Recast (from John Bubniak to Ben Jordan – Insomniac says it happend to get a better match to Peter Parker/Spider-Man actor Yuri Lowenthal’s facial capture)

 

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2 hours ago, Romier S said:


Sony get your shit together! *In the middle of a surprise preorder debacle, the PS5 proceeds to sell out within minutes*

 

giphy.gif

 

I applaud Microsoft for their transparency and the previews we’ve gotten with regard to their hardware. It’s great! They’re absolutely eating Sony’s lunch with regard to how they’ve marketed their hardware since the price leak. I’d love to see more about the PS5 and additional clarity on all of things you’re saying and the good news is that we’ve got a full month left to see more (and we’re going to see YouTubers in Japan getting hardware October 4th) but guess what? Microsoft buying Bethesda means exactly fuck all in so far as demand is concerned with the PS5 for the next year or so. Both these consoles are going to sell out and the reality is that Sony has spent its time highlighting the first party games you’re going to be playing on day one. I’m committed to buying a Series X but it’s going to be a backwards compatibility box because they have yet to show me a new game running on the hardware that I care enough about to buy. That dynamic hasn’t changed.

 

In the interim, I find it ironic that we just got a big blog post detailing the work on the remaster and the rejoinder is “Why aren’t we getting more info?!”. ;)

Ok, ok. I didn’t say Sony was doomed. And get your shit together was a bit hyperbolic. My point was more to the huge commitment MS just made to the Xbox brand, regardless if Bethesda ever is a difference maker. And yeah, Sony has been great showing off their games, whereas Xbox hasn’t shown anything. 
But is them being quiet about the rest because they don’t feel the need to share, or is this coming in hot and they aren’t even sure what may be working at launch? 
 

And it’s great Miles saves will carry over. Why is it different by game? Has there been any games for Xbox where they said saves won’t carry over?

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8 minutes ago, Paul said:

Ok, ok. I didn’t say Sony was doomed. And get your shit together was a bit hyperbolic. My point was more to the huge commitment MS just made to the Xbox brand, regardless if Bethesda ever is a difference maker. And yeah, Sony has been great showing off their games, whereas Xbox hasn’t shown anything. 
But is them being quiet about the rest because they don’t feel the need to share, or is this coming in hot and they aren’t even sure what may be working at launch? 
 

And it’s great Miles saves will carry over. Why is it different by game? Has there been any games for Xbox where they said saves won’t carry over?

 

All valid questions I genuinely hope we get an answer to, Paul. I think Sony is playing the incumbent role if I were to make a political analogy and I certainly don't agree with it or find it to be the best path from a transparency standpoint but at the same time - if they're selling out their console after having shown almost nothing hardware UI/function related? Its hard to argue with the results and people are reluctantly accepting of whatever timetable Sony has in mind. I also don't hate the focus on the games, either as I've said.

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So you know one thing that Insomniac could do for PS4 owners of the game which would be relatively low effort is to release a simple patch and give a settings option to uncap the framerate for the PS4 release. Ensure the game is one of the ones tested to run in the PS5 "Boost" mode and previous owners could still get their game running in backwards compatibility mode at or near 60fps just based on the power potential of the new console running the original game at its Pro resolution at 1440p. I know that's heavily dependent how the PS5 handles these titles in boost mode and I could be underselling the effort to implement but we've seen the boost mode on PS4 make some transformative differences in titles like Soma as an example. It would be a good peace offering, I think.

 

Otherwise, I want to see more of the remaster running at 30fps with RT on. The 60fps mode shows some of the concessions they needed to make to get the game running at 4K60 (shadow reductions, LOD pop-in, no RT, etc.). I want to see the prettiest version now and I'm ok with the $20 charge for this. I only wish it were available for those that didn't buy Miles for the same (mostly) reasonable price.

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