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Inverted controls-when did the "default" change, and why the hatred?


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My rule of thumb is never go full inverted. 

The Falcon is, somewhat famously, a spaceship. Of course it’s inverted. 

I reject the idea that we should call the correct control method “inverted.’  

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Does anyone else think it probably comes down to the first game you played where it mattered?  We all arguing about the way our brains work and it's just a mapping that happened and some game dev programmed each of us years ago.  Have any of you guys heard about that experiment where they put a contraption on people that flipped their entire visual field upside down?  Eventually the brain adapts and you don't even think it's upside down after a while.  

 

Anyways, I love the GIF of Red not giving a shit above... but don't forget I'm right in this argument...

 

image.jpeg.390bf4194dcc01900964bd5019ab5cff.jpeg

 

😉

 

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32 minutes ago, Starhawk said:

The top rated comment in this 9 year old reddit thread blames Goldeneye. 

Yeah, I went back to check a couple of things last night.  I still have a 360 hooked up and handy, and based off a "clean" profile (the one I had set up as a guest account), Halo 3 was non-inverted, as was Oblivion.  I need to get at the original Xbox to check Halo 1/2, because I think 1 was inverted and 2 wasn't by default.  Not sure I trust the versions on the MCC because those might have been patched to change defaults (and I think there was a collection-level setting).  Given Goldeneye was inverted, then I should probably also check Perfect Dark and perhaps PDZ (although I only have the latter under Rare Replay now, so again, not sure what the original config was). 

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We have similar debates at work when it comes to scrolling on our computers using the trackpad and Magic Mouse. For many (usually younger) people they have it set to swipe up to scroll down a webpage, like you do on a touchscreen/phone. I have it to swipe down to mimic a scroll wheel on a mouse. 
 

We do all talk about how our brains are “wired” but it really is just what it is used to and expecting. If forced to switch and play the opposite of what you normally use, your brain would eventually adjust, and then switching back would feel weird. 
 

 

This guy taught himself to ride a bike with backwards steering. After his brain adjusted, going back to a normal bike felt weird and unusual.

 

The brain is a strange and wonderful thing. 

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The Guardian weighed in on this earlier this year:   https://www.theguardian.com/games/2020/feb/28/why-do-video-game-players-invert-the-controls

 

They say more people are non-inverted, but don't give percentages.  They also bolster the theory that it's the players perception of the relationship to the avatar they are controlling which guides their preference. 

Quote

So one way of interpreting this could be that the non-inverters are fully inhabiting the avatar as a body, while the inverters are controlling it as a vehicle. This would suggest that non-inverters are more immersed in the experience, but Corbett disputes this. “The only published study on this I came across – Frischmann, et al, 2015 – found just the opposite, with Y axis inverters reporting higher levels of both presence and immersion.” This might be why it’s the axis inverters who are the most passionate and defensive when this issue comes up on Twitter. Also, many inverters feel that inverting the Y-axis actually brings us closer to human movement because we tilt our heads backwards to look up and forwards to look down.

 

 

Carlos.

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1 hour ago, Graeme said:

We have similar debates at work when it comes to scrolling on our computers using the trackpad and Magic Mouse. For many (usually younger) people they have it set to swipe up to scroll down a webpage, like you do on a touchscreen/phone. I have it to swipe down to mimic a scroll wheel on a mouse. 

 

I have the same issue-I always have to switch trackpads to scroll like scroll wheels.  I'm fine with the actual touchscreen scrolling like you're manipulating a piece of virtual paper, but it doesn't make sense for a scroll wheel or trackpad. 

 

Another one that's always been messed up-look at the number pad on your keyboard, and the number layout on a phone.  Keyboards are typically:

7 8 9

4 5 6

1 2 3

 

whereas phones are:

1 2 3

4 5 6

7 8 9

 

Strangely enough, the only time I screw things up is if I try to use a number pad to dial a phone number on a softphone.  Admittedly, it's not that often anymore (given that it's rare to actual dial phone numbers), but having to deal with phone numbers for work, it's more that never. 

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1 hour ago, Carlucci said:

The Guardian weighed in on this earlier this year:   https://www.theguardian.com/games/2020/feb/28/why-do-video-game-players-invert-the-controls

 

They say more people are non-inverted, but don't give percentages.  They also bolster the theory that it's the players perception of the relationship to the avatar they are controlling which guides their preference. 

 

 

Carlos.

 

correct breaking bad GIF

Ghost Hunters Evidence GIF by A&E

 

troll 1986 GIF by absurdnoise

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3 hours ago, Graeme said:

This guy taught himself to ride a bike with backwards steering. After his brain adjusted, going back to a normal bike felt weird and unusual.

 

That was a great video. While we’re on the subject, here’s a few things I’ve had to relearn how to do over the years:

 

Move away for “Southpaw” style controls for first-person games on console.

Going back to what I said earlier about learning my aiming preferences from Turok for N64, this was the first FPS I ever really played. The controls in this game used the C buttons — which were located on the right side of the controller — to move,  and the analog stick — located to the left — for aiming. I subsequently played all first-person games on the N64 like this, even changing the default scheme for Goldeneye to match it.

 

When the next generation of consoles (PS2, Xbox, GameCube) arrived, I found myself unable to play these types of games with the default control schemes. My brain had learned that left thumb = aim and right thumb = move — the opposite of that games like Halo defaulted to. It wasn’t a big problem at first. Halo offers a Southpaw controller configuration that switches the functions of the two analog sticks. The same was true for most other first-person shooters. However, the game Metal Arms: Glitch in the System, which I desperately wanted to play, didn’t offer this option. It was default or nothing. So, I learned to play it as is, and it was not easy. I died way more often than I would have normally, but eventually I did get the hang of it and beat the game.

 

What’s funny is once I had finished it, I didn’t stick with the standard control scheme. I went back to Southpaw again... at least for a while. Within a year, I decided I would try to make the switch permanently, as this would make a lot of other games easier to play. For instance, Splinter Cell, which required you to aim with the right analog stick when pulling out your pistol, would feel a lot smoother if I could rewire my brain so that left thumb = move and right thumb = aim.

 

Consequently, I can’t play first-person shooters on the N64 anymore. If I try, my brain gets all confused again, because I’ve learned to play those games with standard controls. Fortunately, Turok is on Xbox One, and it’s awesome.

 

Use a mouse with my left hand.

Years ago, when I started my current job, I ran into a problem. My right hand started to get tingly and sore from using it too much. This was my first office job in which I sat at a PC all day, using a keyboard and mouse to do my work. Coupled with the fact that I would go home and use my PC a bunch and maybe play  games for hours on end, it didn’t take long for my right hand to get start feeling the telltale signs of RSI.

 

I tried a few things to relieve the pain. First, I worked with an ergonomics guy at work to adjust my desk and chair so as to reduce strain points on my neck, back, and wrists. I had a nasty habit of holding my mouse by bending my wrist at a nearly 90-degree angle, while resting it on the mouse pad, which put more strain on it than I should have (you want arms and wrists to remain relatively straight when holding a mouse).

 

Second, I bought an arm brace, which I wore every night when I went to bed. This kept my wrist from bending in the night and forced it to relax.

 

Third, and most importantly, I switched to using a mouse with my right hand while I was at work. I would still use my right hand when I was at home, but at least it would get less use while I was at work all day long.

 

This was not easy. In order for it to feel right, I had to also switch the primary and secondary button clicks on the mouse so that my left hand’s pointer finger would be the one to make the primary click. At the same time, trying to get the movements right felt really weird at first. It was actually more mentally and physically exhausting because I was trying harder to do something that had been so easy and rudimentary before.

 

Over the course of several weeks — months even — I did get used to it. To this day, I continue to control my work mouse with my left hand. I’m much better at it now, though it still doesn’t feel quite as easy or natural as using my right hand. What’s funny is that since March, I’ve been working from home, and I’ve been using my right hand for mousing this whole time. Thankfully, I haven’t had any RSI issues during that tim. I go back into the office starting Monday, so we’ll see how quickly I can get back into my “old” ways.

 

Riding a bike with backwards steering though? I doubt I’d have much luck with that.

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Jeff,

 

I rock two mice at work, though I don't bother with the left-mouse click settings.  I like to give me wrists a break, but have a few tasks where a mouse in my left hand and a numpad in my right is so useful.

 

Also, talking about mice in this context just reminded me about something kinda funny for those of you who remember Covak.  He had a work term that was so boring (I think the tech bubble had just burst, so good ones were harder to find) that he taught himself to use a mouse upside-down.  He clicked the buttons with his palm and claimed to have gotten pretty good at it.  From most anyone I'd call bullshit, but with James you just knew he could mouse upside-down better than 90% of humans mouse normally by the end of the term.

 

Heh, he had some pretty strong opinions about this stuff.  I'm not sure he ever respected me fully once he found out I didn't invert my mouse in PC shooters 😜

 

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I’m a left-handed mouser, but then, I’m left handed. I was southpaw controls on pads as well for a long while, after Goldeneye. But games didn’t move the face buttons to the dpad, and so learning to put movement on the left stick was the only way you could move with that hand and still melee or jump with the other. So I had to learn. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Had a good chuckle at my own expense last night.  I happened to see something about the invert Y setting for XBox controllers so I decided to try it out, set up a profile for myself on my main controller and inverted the Y stick.

 

So.... it inverts it for everything, not just for settings in games for looking around.

 

I tested it out in a flying game for just a second (sweet, it works!) then had to shut down the XBox and kinda forgot about it.  The first thing I really played a couple of days later that mattered was NHL20. I lost the opening faceoff (did my guy not even try there???) but got the puck back, got a sweet scoring chance... and faked a slapshot instead of shooting a wrister.  (What the hell?!).  Took me a second to realize what happened.  I'm sure someone in one of these threads warned about it already... but yeah, would not recommend unless you really want it inverting everything.

 

 

 

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