Jump to content
LCVG

Premium DLC for Live games... when is it ok?


Covak
 Share

Recommended Posts

I'm one of those people who's thinking, about PGR2, "The first DLC, 6 months after release, and it's premium?!?" Here are a couple of reasons why it annoys me:

 

- Aren't I already paying for Live? I bought the game. I'm paying for Live. Do I have to pay a few dollars more here and there, unexpectedly, just to keep up? Why should I have to pay more or else become segmented from other players? "Downloadable Content" is often listed as a feature for games that support it, but if a game is only going to offer premium content, for the Live part of the game no less, shouldn't they be more specific? I want to know, before I buy a game, if I'm going to have to pay more for additional content just to keep up everyone else on Live.

 

- Look at the DLC for other games. Crimson Skies. Splinter Cell. There were a few free downloads for Mech Assault before any premium content. And look at Rainbow Six 3! Even after all this time we're still getting new, free maps for that. What's so special about this PGR2 content that they feel, after 6 months of nothing, that we should pay?

 

If premium content for Live games becomes more common then the beautiful simplicity of Xbox Live will become a bit ugly. There'll be players who are happy to buy it all, players who just buy it to keep up with everyone else (and they'll be annoyed with the extra costs), and players who just won't buy it (which means a segmented player base). I'm sure it'd also scare a few potential Live players away. "You pay for Live, you buy the games, and then you still have to pay more for content updates just to keep up with everyone else? No thanks."

 

And I'm afraid that everyone who buys this new PGR2 content is basically voting for that kind of future for Live.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for your thoughts, Covak :) You make some good points, especially about segmenting players.

 

Aren't I already paying for Live?

 

This is the argument I see most when premium content becomes available. We need to remember exactly what we get for our $50 a year.

 

- Friends list

- 1 gamertag for all games

- Friend invites across all games

- A huge server farm holding stats, ghosts, DLC (free or premium), XSN, etc.

- New features added at no cost

 

but if a game is only going to offer premium content, for the Live part of the game no less

 

All content that I've ever downloaded has been able to be used offline as well as online.

 

What's so special about this PGR2 content that they feel, after 6 months of nothing, that we should pay?

 

That's easy, licensing fees. Look at the first course for Links, a real life course, which I'm sure required a fee for the developers to offer it to us, so why not charge, companies need to make that money back, right?

 

"You pay for Live, you buy the games, and then you still have to pay more for content updates just to keep up with everyone else? No thanks."

 

This part is easy, you don't like it, don't buy it. It really is that simple.

 

And I'm afraid that everyone who buys this new PGR2 content is basically voting for that kind of future for Live.

 

I don't think that's the case. This is the first premium content I've bought and the reason I did is simple, I like PGR2 :) I'm aware that the developers had to pay a fee to allow the use of the cars and city that they provided. Plus, I got more than my $50 out of PGR2 when it was first released, so $5 to me is a bargain for another city and 8 more real world cars.

 

In the end it really comes down to if you feel the content being offered is going to be of any value to you. If it is, great, if it's not, then don't download it :tu:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To give Bizarre Creations their dues, the actual car models are present in the free update they posted the same day. Which means that, while you're right that 'premium' purchasers are segmented when they are actually racing in Paris, you can at least race against people that are driving the new cars even if you haven't yourself on the old tracks. Since the TVR is unlockable in the normal game if you complete it, and the rest of the cars are slower, you're still able to be competitive in non-Paris races without having to pay for fast cars.

 

Personally, I think they've handled it very well. This isn't an instance where premium owners are totally segregated from their non-premium friends, and you got a hell of a lot more for your original game purchase than you do with most of the games that have more frequent Live updates.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is the argument I see most when premium content becomes available. We need to remember exactly what we get for our $50 a year.

 

- Friends list

- 1 gamertag for all games

- Friend invites across all games

- A huge server farm holding stats, ghosts, DLC (free or premium), XSN, etc.

- New features added at no cost

 

Isn't "Downloadable Content" also one of the features MS likes to brag about with regards to Live and the games that support it? Are we really getting that feature with Live, or with PGR2, when the content costs more? Generally you don't have to ask yourself "Will I have to pay more for that feature?" when you're reading about a game.

 

That's easy, licensing fees. Look at the first course for Links, a real life course, which I'm sure required a fee for the developers to offer it to us, so why not charge, companies need to make that money back, right?

 

I guess the problem here is that people want to know exactly what their Live subscription fee is covering. Is the actual content a part of Live, and thus covered in some way by our Live dollars, or is it just the ability to download content that we're paying for?

 

In the end it really comes down to if you feel the content being offered is going to be of any value to you. If it is, great, if it's not, then don't download it :tu:

 

Suppose I don't want Paris or those new cars and I go online to play PGR2 now and everyone's just driving around Paris? Aren't I kinda being punished for not coughing up more money?

 

I think it's a bit of a shady area because there hasn't (has there?) been anything quite like this before (little $5 updates that just slightly change a product). With an expansion pack for a PC game everyone knows the deal. And you're probably not paying for some online service to play the game anyway, so you expect to pay a decent amount for a big fat expansion pack and that's that. But with a little $5 add-on it's almost like they're trying to squeeze $5 out of everyone, even the people who don't want the content, because it's just $5, right? And you want to keep playing with everyone else, right?

 

Please note: this is all just hypothetical, for the sake of argument. I lent my PGR2 to a buddy, so the fact that I don't have Paris yet has hardly been a problem for me ;)

 

iainl, I agree that they did things nicely, considering. In other games, though, it may not be possible to do things so nicely (or the developer may just be dumber), and such premium DLC could be a problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unfortunately, it already happened, when that Ubisoft demo disc with the exclusive (for a time, anyway) levels came out. There was some problem where those that had applied the patch couldn't even play 'normal' games against non-patched people, which is what I'm really glad BC have avoided here.

 

Basically, I'm fine with premium content for a game, as long as

 

a) Its possible to play against my non-premium mates on the original levels with original settings still. If you penalise me for getting premium content in this way, then I'll definitely not buy it.

 

B) It doesn't make the game unfairly hard for non-premium people. The suggestion that Gran Tourismo 4 owners are going to be able to buy cars that make people paying just for the game uncompetitive seems ludicrous. Imagine if Quake 4 allowed only premium payers to have rocket launchers!

 

This one is a bit more complicated, though. By all means introduce some new cool toys in a premium download, just allow you to 'play fair' by choosing to leave them in the box for games vs. non-premium owners. So I suppose its all right as long as the premium GT4 players can leave their fancy stuff in the garage. But then, its a long and (not so) glorious tradition in that series of beating the opposition with a stupidly overpowered car rather than superior driving ability.

 

c) Most importantly, I'll not be buying a game in the first place if you don't appear to get a full game without buying the extras. Games should still be full games out of the box, without even needing a Live connection at all except for some additional multiplayer fun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Bryan

The problem I see with PGR 2's DLC is more timing than money. Many people played the hell out of PGR2 and traded it in because there didn't appear to be any dlc coming in a timely fashion.

 

UBI's support of Rainbow Six 3 has been well timed and fantastic. Links has provided two courses, one a free remix and the other a good $4.99 course. They are releasing another course in the next two weeks.

 

I would like to see more games street, get played for a few weeks and then have a timeline given for future DLC. It would give gamers a chance to decide whether they want to keep the game and wait for content or get rid of it and move on to newer releases in the same genre (TOOCA, RSC2).

 

I do not mind paying for content. It makes it easier to take if the developer also offers some free content (MechAssault, Links). I think UBI would have a tough time charging for any RS3 content now, considering the track record of free content they have provided. Timing of premium content is important - I think the best recipe is a free dlc then premium if there is going to be any premium.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, I understand Bryan's comment about not liking the timing and Covak's concern about segmenting the market.

 

But premium content -- i.e., content that will carry an additional charge -- has been a part of Live from the beginning. And every person who signs up for a Live account is put on notice during the process that some content may carry an additional cost.

 

So this is my question: Under what circumstances would you be okay with premium content?

 

-j

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Isn't "Downloadable Content" also one of the features MS likes to brag about with regards to Live and the games that support it?

Yes, it is. As a matter of fact only a handful of games have Premium Content, and only 4 come to mind. MechAssault, DDR, Links & PGR2. I consider Premium Content "DOwnloadble Content" as well. The minute you sign up for Live, you're told that there MAY be additional, optional charges for "Premium Content". This should come as NO surprise to anyone. They never said all of it will be free.

 

I also don't mind Premium Content becuase look at all the FREE content that's been released. Tons of maps for RS3. GR, GR:IT, MechAssault, Crimson Skies, etc.

 

If you enjoy the game, skip Starbucks coffee for a day, and pay for the content. If you don't feel like paying for it, you don't have to. It's OPTIONAL. Noone is making you pay for it.

 

Aren't I kinda being punished for not coughing up more money?

 

I guarantee even if you don't pay for the Premium Content, there will still be TONS of people playing with out it. Plus, you can always start your own room for people to join. There's no Master Chief's assault rifle to anyone head regarding Premium Content. :) "Punishment" would be if they MADE you pay for it, which they're not. Or if the completely blocke you from playing it unless you purchased it, which they're not.

 

The problem I see with PGR 2's DLC is more timing than money. Many people played the hell out of PGR2 and traded it in because there didn't appear to be any dlc coming in a timely fashion.

 

As far as timing the releases of DLC, unlike a lot of people, I keep my games. If I enjoyed them at all, I keep them. I always get the urge to play older games, and I learned my lesson about keeping my old games when I got rid of my old systems and wanted to play all my old games a few months back. The Premium Content for PGR2 too 6 months, but for me, it revived interest in the game for me. Same goes for the Premium Content in MechAssault. IMO it increases the longetivity of the game, plus I don't think that 6 months is that late to be getting content. A year, maybe, but definitely not 6 months.

 

Look at the attention span of games here at LCVG, some games are very popular, but only for a few weeks. Are they supposed to cater DLC for just those people? There's no way they can judge it. And as I said above, this content has revived my interest in PGR2, which is just what I think they were planning on doing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like chris,Im fine with premium DL content as long as it dosnt seperate players. I have got a few prem downloads packages. My thoughts

 

1)Mech Assault had a ton of free content before there premium pack came out, and the premium stuff was excellent.

2) Links of course is one of my favorites. They had to pay a fee to make the course , plus they already gave us another one free. Been paying for links course for years on the PC anyway

3)Dance Dance Revolution- This game came with a lot of songs to begin with. My brother plays the hell out of this game, and has used all the songs so its more then worth it .

 

 

$5 for good content is worth it to me. I probably spend $5 on junk every day. However if they release something like 1 new car for $5, or some make believe course/track then they are going a little overboard

 

capt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A few thoughts:

 

I don?t mind paying $5 for quality premium content. I also don?t mind free downloadable content. I thought $5 for Kapalua was worth it (after my Xbox crashed it went up to $10 however :bang: ). It was great to get a free course as well, even though it?ll kick your ass. What I don?t want to see is 6 or 7 premium downloads for a game. Then I?m paying $85 for one title? That?ll only fly for Nintendo ;).

 

I think there?s a bit of marketing strategy here as well,

 

And look at Rainbow Six 3! Even after all this time we're still getting new, free maps for that

 

Based on this, and the fact the RS3 is a great game, I?ll be purchasing the next RS3 installment the day it comes out. UBI may not be charging $5 a map, but they?ve already guaranteed another $50 from me. So if I pay $5 for Paris and 8 cars in PGR2 (which I did) and think it sucks (haven?t played it enough yet), and then receive no free content, I might not be to amped about PGR3. I haven?t played PGR2 in at least a month, but I did last night, and I probably will a bit this weekend. That right there is worth the $5 to me. I?m with Buck, I got way more than my $50 out of PGR2 and I?m sure he?s put way more time into it than I have.

 

All in all I think there should be a balance, that?ll appease the most people, myself included.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess I'm just cheap at heart, but I will not be buying any premium content for any of my Xbox Live titles. In fact, I didn't buy a few titles specifically because of the "premium content". Links and DDR are examples of that. I know the games themselves are good, but it's the principle of the thing to me.

 

It's sad, but at this point, I'm probably not even going to renew my account. I renewed it last year, and I believe that I've played a grand total of 1 game on Live since then.

 

I think the only thing that I've used it for is for the free updates to each of the games that I have.

 

I guess I'm just not in their core demographic.

 

Glen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So this is my question: Under what circumstances would you be okay with premium content?

 

I think iainl's list does it for me. As long as it doesn't mess things up too much between those who buy it and those who don't, and it's actually worth the money, then it's an easy pill to swallow.

 

Unfortunately, it already happened, when that Ubisoft demo disc with the exclusive (for a time, anyway) levels came out. There was some problem where those that had applied the patch couldn't even play 'normal' games against non-patched people, which is what I'm really glad BC have avoided here.

 

Holy cow. Here's hoping they never do that with premium DLC!

 

"Punishment" would be if they MADE you pay for it

 

The problem I see is when people feel like they were forced. People think their Live subscription should count for something when it comes to playing Live games on Live. They don't want hidden fees popping up on top of the regular Live fees just to maintain the quality of the service for a particular game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They don't want hidden fees popping up on top of the regular Live fees just to maintain the quality of the service for a particular game.

There are no hidden fees. It's specifically stated when you sign up for Live, that there is or will be OPTIONAL Premium Content. It's been there since Day One.

 

People think their Live subscription should count for something when it comes to playing Live games on Live.

You get the access to the Live servers, the voice chat, lots of FREE DLC, matchmaking services, etc. That's a LOT for 50$ a year IMO. So to me, it does count for something. Not everything is free in this world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Isn't "Downloadable Content" also one of the features MS likes to brag about with regards to Live and the games that support it? Are we really getting that feature with Live, or with PGR2, when the content costs more?

 

DLC is most certainly a feature that you get with Live. While there have been OXM disks and Exhibition disks that have had the content on them, not all content has come out on them. You're also paying for the disks, which if I remember correctly has never had premium content on them.

 

Please note: this is all just hypothetical, for the sake of argument. I lent my PGR2 to a buddy, so the fact that I don't have Paris yet has hardly been a problem for me

 

I know, Covak :) Besides, I fully expect to hit the streets of Paris with you when you get your copy back :tu:

 

The problem I see with PGR 2's DLC is more timing than money.

 

What about the timing of the first Links download? The games was out for what, 1-2 months and there was a download that cost you $5. Why didn't that course make it into the final game? I paid $50 for a golf game that had 8 (?) courses, but my buddy bought a golf game for $50 with over 20. Now I need to spend $5 to get 1 more course?

 

Would it have made a difference to anyone if the PGR2 content came out a month after it's release for $5? Sure, but then we'd be arguing that the content should have been in the final game. My point? Timing is subjective.

 

I guess I'm just cheap at heart, but I will not be buying any premium content for any of my Xbox Live titles. In fact, I didn't buy a few titles specifically because of the "premium content". Links and DDR are examples of that. I know the games themselves are good, but it's the principle of the thing to me.

 

I'd really like you to elaborate on this, Glen. I'm a little confused as you're paying a monthly fee for a MMO, but the idea of a one time $5 download that adds content to a console game makes you not buy said game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Bryan

MS isn't the one charging for everything, either. They have the collection mechanism, but game publishers are assigning dollar values to the content they are producing. Those interested will be paying for EA Sports premium content soon. That will be EA's decision and MS should not be vilified for it.

 

Scott,

The timing of the first DLC was perfect. I was disappointed to see that Links only had eight courses on the disc; however, the franchise has a long history of premium content in the form of course discs. I think that Links fans who have purchased PC versions in prior years have no problem paying $5 for a course because we used to pay $20 for 3 - 5 courses on disc. I was also happy to see the free DC course come out a few weeks later.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Those interested will be paying for EA Sports premium content soon.

I'm going to wait until EA OFFICIALLY reports about charging for content. They've had reports about charging for content on all their online games, including PS2 games, so until I see that they are 100% charging, I'm considering it a rumor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From IGN:

 

Microsoft and EA, however, mentioned the possibility of EA experimenting with addition charges on Xbox Live. EA's Chip Lang explained. "This is all new for us, so there will be a learning process. We will experiment with different strategies for charging, starting this fall in these EA games. NCAA and Madden will have some sort of charge fee, but honestly, we're going to see how people react, and what works and what doesn't. Maybe gamers can download exclusive skins or extra characters or special things they couldn't get in the game proper -- dedicated and exclusive content. We'll see."

 

Although he says there will be some sort of charge, it's anything BUT official still, so we'll have to wait and see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess the question here is, what exactly does EA plan to charge a premium for? Will we be charged for just having the ability to play their games on Live or will we be charged for say, roster updates and the like?

 

Time will tell :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd really like you to elaborate on this, Glen. I'm a little confused as you're paying a monthly fee for a MMO, but the idea of a one time $5 download that adds content to a console game makes you not buy said game.

 

I'd like to have an explanation, but I can't come up with one yet. I think it's just that I've enjoyed City of Heroes a great deal more than I've ever like playing on Xbox Live.

 

I guess it boils down to this.

 

I pay for City of Heroes, and I knew coming in that they would be charging me per month for the game. I knew what the cost would be, and when I would be paying for it. With the premium content, Microsoft doesn't seem to want to let you know when you buy the game if that game is going to make you pay for premium content or not. It's pretty much become a guessing game when you buy a new game from them as to if you are going to have to pay for the additional items, or whether they'll just be part of an Xbox Live download.

 

I think that's what annoys me most. I knew that DDR would charge for the songs, so I didn't get it. If they were up front about all of them, I think that might allow me to prepare for it.

 

Mind you... this is my first MMORPG as well. It took me a long time to come around to the fact that I would have to pay a monthly fee for a game.

 

Glen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...