Jump to content
LCVG

Thief 3 Discussion


Bappo
 Share

Recommended Posts

Got the game for the XBox after work today and played through the training mission and saved. Not enough time tonight to go further.

 

DD5.1 is superb. Sound, like in the first 2 thiefs is amazing and necessary.

 

480P and it looks great.

 

No signs of slowdown, framerate issues, etc. as you are normally moving slowly. Analog speed control is as expected. Your bow is at an angle now, Garrett must be catching up with archery times. Third person is the default but I never even saw it in action as I switched to first person immediately. No reason to change what already works. Story background , briefings, cutscenes are on a par with the previous games; excellent so far.

 

Nothing to complain about so far. Will have to see about the switch from rope arrows to climbing walls. Being a rock climber myself I don't see a problem :D

 

Figured I'd start a new topic as the other is titled for screenshots. This will be for gameplay, reviews, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Played this for quite a bit last night and working on some impressions but I want to get a little deeper in before I give my full thoughts. So far I will say that performance wise the PC version is a marked improvement over DX2: Invisible War. As far as the actual game is concerned any Thief fan out there will instantly enjoy Deadly Shadows. It completely captures what Thief is all about so far for me and the third person view is an excellent addition for folks that may not have liked the first person view (I refuse to use it though. ;) ). I'll post more thorough impressions in the next week when I can get some really serious sit down time with it.

 

Also for those wanting to try the PC version here you go:

 

Thief III Demo at Fileplanet

 

Thief III demo at 3dgamers.com

 

Thief III demo at Eidos UK Official site

 

Enjoy!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Been playing T3 heavily since it came out on the 26th. Pretty much have to play it on expert to get good AI, and even then it's sometimes spotty.

 

While the audio is fantastic, I have to disagree with the "superb" 5.1 comments. I've got about $10000 in my sound system, which...if you're a member of hometheaterforum.com, isn't all that much invested, anyhoo...I have a VERY hard time discerning if the sounds of someone walking, is in front of me or to the rear. Left/right panning is extremely accurate but, the front/back is very weak. Halo, Splinter Cell, Rainbox Six 3, Rallisport 2, Steel Battalion...ect are all excellent.

 

Not Thief... :(

 

Frame rate is better than DE:IW but, like that title, it gets pretty damn choppy here and there. Just less of the here/there in T3. The Keeper Citadel is the worst, so far.

 

Level design has been excellent, so far.

 

All in all, it feels like Thief. Been a fan since the day the original was released.

 

Tried the new 3rd person view and, it's terrible, if you ask me. Frame rate usually gets worse (more to draw), and it COMPLETELY ruins the immersive quality of the 1st person view.

 

I guess the Splinter Cell crowd will "dig it". To each his/her own. It's easy to go to the 1st person view.

 

Hopefully, all the recent bad news from Ion Storm doesn't mean the end of the Thief franchise. This feels just like when Romero's piece of shit Daikatana sunk Eidos into the red and they sold off Looking Glass Studios. Must be some sort of bad karma that's released whenever a new Thief game comes out. :|

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by Derrik Draven@May 29 2004, 07:29 PM

While the audio is fantastic, I have to disagree with the "superb" 5.1 comments. I've got about $10000 in my sound system, which...if you're a member of hometheaterforum.com, isn't all that much invested, anyhoo...I have a VERY hard time discerning if the sounds of someone walking, is in front of me or to the rear. Left/right panning is extremely accurate but, the front/back is very weak. Halo, Splinter Cell, Rainbox Six 3, Rallisport 2, Steel Battalion...ect are all excellent.

I thought that it was only me having problems! I agree, the positional audio doesn't work. It has to be a bug. Take any static sound (like the guard talking in his sleep in level one) and just spin around in a circle. The sound pans perfectly across the front soundstage but then stops panning and when the sound source is behind you in the game, it shifts back to the front soundstage on the speakers.

 

This is very disappointing since the original Thief games were groundbreaking in the positional audio department. So much of the game is being able to pinpoint guards from where they are by their mumblings and footsteps.

 

 

 

I agree with the other points brought up by Derrik. The gameplay is pure Thief and fans of the originals (as I am) will feel right at home.

 

Since immersion is such an important aspect of the game, I can't imagine why anyone would use the 3rd person camera, it totally ruins the "you are Garrett" feel of the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agree with the previous 2 posts in that the positional audio is great for the front stage but weak in the back. It is much improved setting the receiver to DD6.1 ES Matrix. Not as good as the old Auraul audio of the Thief's of old, though. Frustrating getting to 97% loot on a mission and not being able to find that last 3%.

 

Hope to never kill anyone in the game. That was always my goal in the past. Not including undead uf course.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought that it was only me having problems! I agree, the positional audio doesn't work. It has to be a bug. Take any static sound (like the guard talking in his sleep in level one) and just spin around in a circle. The sound pans perfectly across the front soundstage but then stops panning and when the sound source is behind you in the game, it shifts back to the front soundstage on the speakers

 

Exactly! I was hoping I wasn't the only one. I used to like to stand near the 1st waterfall in Halo and slowly spin around just to hear the flawless panning around my room. I knew that there was a problem with Thief....

 

I agree Bappo; no killing here either. Garretts a thief, not a murderer. Gloves come off for the undead or anyone conspiring to whack me out, though!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks like there is a pretty nasty bug for those looking to play the game on "Expert" difficutly. Apparently this affects the Xbox and PC version which is unfortunate for Xbox users that may not see a patch to correct the issue. Here is an outline of the problem for you by a poster named Northon:

 

I think we can all agree that, due to marketing decisions or whatever, Thief DS was released before it had been properly tested and polished. Case and point: no mouse-sensitivity slider in the menus. In addition to the odd things like the poorly optimized rag-doll effects, and an expert mode that is too easy, I am subject to random crashes, sound glitches and a host of other little problems.

 

But the bug I just discovered tonight (which will effect everyone, including XBox players) will make me wait for a patch. Yes, its that bad.

 

You see, in Thief DS, the difficulty mode affects the following elements of the game:

-objectives

-number of guards

-AI perceptiveness *

-AI combat ability *

 

When you load your game during a mission, you naturally expect that all of these elements will be preserved. The truth is that the latter two will be reset to normal difficulty, regardless of what setting you started the mission on.

 

How do I know this for certain?

 

Well, the DEFAULT.INI file contains a block of entries that describe the "multipliers" used to scale certain AI properties according to difficulty:

 

Quote:

; -- THIEF 3

;

; AI visual acuity multiplier - how well AIs can see

Difficulty_AIVisual_Mult_Easy=0.9

Difficulty_AIVisual_Mult_Normal=1.0

Difficulty_AIVisual_Mult_Hard=1.15

Difficulty_AIVisual_Mult_Expert=1.2

;

; AI auditory acuity multiplier - how well AIs can hear

Difficulty_AIAudio_Mult_Easy=0.8

Difficulty_AIAudio_Mult_Normal=1.0

Difficulty_AIAudio_Mult_Hard=1.03

Difficulty_AIAudio_Mult_Expert=1.13

;

; AI tactile acuity multiplier - how well AIs can feel

Difficulty_AITactile_Mult_Easy=1.0

Difficulty_AITactile_Mult_Normal=1.0

Difficulty_AITactile_Mult_Hard=1.0

Difficulty_AITactile_Mult_Expert=1.0

;

; AI hitpoints multiplier - all AI starting hitpoints will be scaled by this

Difficulty_AIHitPoints_Mult_Easy=0.75

Difficulty_AIHitPoints_Mult_Normal=1.0

Difficulty_AIHitPoints_Mult_Hard=1.2

Difficulty_AIHitPoints_Mult_Expert=1.3

;

; AI combat speed multiplier - all AI combat animations are scaled by this

Difficulty_AICombatSpeed_Mult_Easy=1.0

Difficulty_AICombatSpeed_Mult_Normal=1.0

Difficulty_AICombatSpeed_Mult_Hard=1.1

Difficulty_AICombatSpeed_Mult_Expert=1.2

;

; AI-to-player damage multiplier - all damage applied to the player by the AI is scaled by this

Difficulty_AIToPlayerDamage_Mult_Easy=0.5

Difficulty_AIToPlayerDamage_Mult_Normal=1.0

Difficulty_AIToPlayerDamage_Mult_Hard=1.25

Difficulty_AIToPlayerDamage_Mult_Expert=1.5

 

Because I was finding the game too easy on expert, I decided to increase the appropriate multipliers. It worked great at first, Hammerites were killing me in about 2 hits, just like in Thief Gold. But after reloading my game I noticed a drastic change. Much to my surprise, the damage seemed to be reduced below even the standard expert level.

 

Unfortunately, this bug seems to occur with unmodified DEFAULT.INI files as well. Try it out for yourself. Restart a mission on *expert*, save immediately, take 1 hit from a baddie and note the health lost. Then load your game, and do the same. The damage will be smaller the second time.

 

Of all the multipliers listed above, the one that is not affected by this bug is AI hitpoints, which makes sense since they are calculated at the start of the mission.

 

Think you can get around this bug by setting the "normal difficulty" multipliers in your DEFAULT.INI file to those of "expert"? Think again. The multipliers are reset to 1.0 regardless of what's in the ini file.

 

This is bad folks, real bad.

 

You can find more of the writeup along with user test here along with responses.

 

http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?...68&page=1&pp=25

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Check out this thread: Thief bug

 

I've been a member of the above forum for years. VERRRRRRRRRY hardcore Thief fans there.

 

They HATE our Xbox. :roll: Whatever...anyhoo, one of them found this bug. It's a bug that's on both the PC and the, as they call it, The Xbrick.

 

In a nutshell, none of us have ever really played the game on anything but "normal" difficulty. While the loot requirements never get reset, any single save during a mission will bump the AI difficulty back to normal. If you cross over into a new load zone, then come back....wham, back to normal AI difficulty. You CANNOT change it once the mission begins. You're stuck at that pathetic AI level until the mission is over...

 

And I wondered why the hell Theif seemed so easy as compared to the past ones. This also explains the spotty AI. Sometimes it's brilliant and sometimes it's like retarded cripples trying to find you. That's because, if you're like me and play it on hard or expert, for a little while the AI of the NPC's is REALLY tough! Then, you save and when you come back, they're totally dumbed down. No one ever knew what was going on until this bug was found. Also explains why sometimes they'd notice even my shadow, and come to inspect what they saw, and other times you could damn near tap dance behind a guard before he'd notice you!

 

...resetting AI. Nice. :bang:

 

And to think that Ion put so much into really crafty AI, only to have this fucking flaw in it!!!! You'll only get to experience the best AI until you save, or cross some load zones. In a game like Thief, where the AI is critical, this is a major flaw, if you ask me.

 

This is VERY disappointing to me. :( First, Ion Storm gives us the very lousy Deus Ex:Invisible War, now they fuck up Thief. Same lousy framerates too. Ion Storm have defintely left an impression on me, as to their "skills".

 

Especially since there will not be any fix for the console.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes this has left a bad taste in my mouth as well. Now my motivation to finish the game is low and I was really enjoying the game until I noticed how spotty the AI was and how easy the game felt compared to past games. So has anyone heard anything from the boys at Ion about this? I know they kind of closed up shop and are going to work on handheld stuff (from what I understand) but does that mean they wont support the games currently out there? I'm getting REALLY tired of buggy games lately. :bang:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by db

]What's a rag-doll effect?

 

 

In this context it is how a dead or unconcscious body reacts in the game world. Limbs go limp and the body reacts accordingly just as if you were playing with a "rag doll". (Ever see a skiier crash, go unconcscious and continue to fall down the mountain? That is a "rag doll" effect) Say for instance in Thief 3 I pickup a body and drop it on an object like a fallen chair. In Thief 3 the bodies react goofy in that they sometimes float or bounce awkwardly. Its like the ojbect and the body are fighting for position. Its kind of funny to see. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know they kind of closed up shop and are going to work on handheld stuff (from what I understand)

 

They haven't closed up shop. They've laid off staff, yup, and are allegedly working on a PS2 title, but they're not closed. And it's Eidos that has to make the call on support decisions anyway.

 

Console games have been patched before, y'know. Often later print runs of games feature slightly different executables patching critical bugs, you just don't hear about it generally - if someone hits the bug, the publisher suggests they take it back & exchange their "bad disc" with the idea being they get a copy from the second printrun with the fix.

 

Also, there's been disc recalls before - happened with Madden last year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

New report on the bug...

 

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/06/08/news_6100241.html

 

Ion Storm was apparently more forthcoming: a post from one of the game's developers said "the find isn't being ignored" and that the studio was "looking into it." However, the person didn't sound optimistic, saying, "Can't say anything more for now, and there aren't any guarantees...."

 

Not sounding like fantastic news so far....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 11 months later...

In my current unemployed destruction of games left, right, and center I played through this a while back and figured I'd show up with my impressions a few months late ;).

 

Did they ever fix that bug in the X-Box version? I know they did in the PC one, which is good because I won't play through Thief on anything less than the highest difficulty level for maximum enjoyment.

 

I was left with mixed feelings about this game when it was all said and done. My PC isn't a slouch by any means, but the movement was very jerk-ass for a lot of the gametime even with everything turned down. The shadows were a really nice touch but they were bogging the system down like a mofo.

 

The engine used for this title and Deus Ex:IW ought to be taken out and shot. I'm guessing we won't see it used anymore, but it's ridiculously cumbersome for an FPS engine compared to much better looking games. Doom 3 rocks the pants off this game in terms of graphics and yet it ran faster as well.

 

The loss of the rope arrows really stung for me. The climbing gloves were cute and all, but they cannot replace that great feeling of finding that lone piece of wood that lets you sneak up on some unsuspecting household. My feelings on the city hub design are a mixed too, although in the end they were mostly positive. But I wish they'd kept the equipment load-out rather than having you buy stuff. Less realistic, yes, but it made it more tense for me. By the end I was so full up on trick arrows I probably could have shot down Green Arrow.

 

On the plus side, loved the level design for the most part. The haunted orphanage was one of the best levels of any FPS I've played in recent memory and it scared the damn willies out of me in places too. I really liked that they ended the missions with the museum as well, which was so classically Thief and incredibly well done (racking up all that loot was too sweet for words).

 

Big plus for an excellent endgame, which to my mind justified the entire city hub section and was nice and thiefy and didn't descend to an FPS or some impossibly hard game of cat and mouse (see: Thief 2's stupid-hard last mission, which I have never managed to beat). Great ending scene as well, which capped off an interesting story (loved those keeper assassins) and brought things full circle. And of course, the voice acting was a treat too; Thief wouldn't be anywhere near as memorable without Stephen Russell voicing Garrett.

 

So not as much fun as the previous two titles, but excellent level design and a good story helped overcome the deficiencies to make it a pretty decent little title overall. It'll be a shame if this is the last we see of Garrett though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, the Xbox version was hung out to dry. No patch. :mad:

 

That bug pissed me off big time, too! The AI is so important in the Thief games and, to have a bug of that magnitude in the AI...well, ruined it for me. I only play on expert, as well.

 

The graphics engine must have been held together by shoddy coding because, as you mentioned, there's more impressive stuff out there now, that runs MUCH better than T3.

 

I know for a fact that the dev team WAS NOT happy about making it fit on the Xbox and, they made some real concessions to do so.

 

I'm a member of http://www.ttlg.com forums and, there are some people, ex Ion Storm, that frequent our forums. When the editor for the Thief 3 engine came out, many modders and level designers were having fits trying to make something out of the editor. A few devs made mention to the fact that, "now you guys know how we felt trying to make things work on the Xbox".

 

They didn't sound too thrilled with the experience.

 

Anyhoo...I hope it's not the end of Garrett either. I LOVE the atmosphere and the whole Thief universe.

 

I'm also hoping that some of our kick ass modders on the Thief forums can make some kick ass levels. There's talk of maybe even making a complete city, linking hubs together, that's MUCH bigger than what we got with Ion Storm.

 

My fingers are crossed!!! :tu

 

Oh yeah, if you like Thief 2, there is a brand new, totally complete, fan made mission set, based on the Thief 2 Dark Engine. It's EXTREMELY impressive and very professionally done. I'm talking voice overs, cut scenes, all new graphics, new charactars, the works!! All of it done to the highest levels. Speaking of levels, these new ones are massive!!! And...IT'S ALL FREE!!!!! Check it out:Shadows of the Metal Age

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...