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Smartjoy FRAG ?


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Originally posted by Ruffneck@Oct 4 2004, 02:27 PM

Depending how it works it could also SEVERELY imbalance games. I for one hope it sucks. If it works as intended, it gives those people an unfair advantage over those who use a controller IMO.

I agree.

 

But then nobody here on LCVG would resort to that.... right?!

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Don't get me wrong - I'm a PC gamer as well, and I'd never resort to using a controller on my PC, but the fact we're all on semi-equal ground with controllers on consoles, makes games more fun. You learn to adapt to a new kind of input, and work with it. Everyones close to equal. (If you suck, you suck - No getting around that. :))

 

I have a bad feeling if this product works well, that it will cause a lot of frustration wither Xbox gamers.

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Ya I'm not really for it either. Console games are designed with the controller in mind. Critial gameplay decisions are made based on this (How tough and quick to react the AI is, etc). I wouldn't rule it out for single player use (on a game that warrants it) but I wouldn't touch it for XBL play for the unfair advantage it gives the gamer. Wouldn't feel right getting all those kills in RS3 games. Ok actually it would in an evil sort of way. :twisted:

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I'm doubtful about how well it'll work for "precision" mouse controlled first person shooters, frankly. Control sticks on console joypads have a fixed precision range, and the games are written with that in mind - there's a fixed physical limit on how fast the player can rotate in one frame & changing the input to a mouse isn't going to change that as far as I can tell. So a player isn't gong to magically be able to whip their targeting reticle around the screen in a frame.

 

I'd like to see one personally as it seems like a cool hack. But that's by the by.

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I'm with Kyle on this one. Using a "gun style" controller specifically designed for FPS supposedly improves performance, is that considered "cheating" as well? I've never been a PC gamer, so a k+m would probably be a hindrance for me. I'm not going to worry about an opponent's choice of controller.

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I'm pretty worried about this :? If it works well I know how much better I could aim with it. The thought of others having that much of an advantage, secretly, is scary.

 

Can the Xbox can tell what's connected to its controller ports? Maybe they could prevent people from logging into Live with the thing connected...

 

You just know if it does work well there'll be a million asshats using it in every Live shooter from now on. I wonder what Microsoft's position on it is...

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Using a "gun style" controller specifically designed for FPS supposedly improves performance, is that considered "cheating" as well?

 

That could go back and forth really. I would argue that by using a "better" designed controller, specifically meant to enhance performance doesn't have the after effect of completely eliminating the inherent aiming limitations on an console FPS. Yes the comfortability helps, the ability to assign buttons helps etc. but using a mouse and keyboard is a whole other story all together.

 

I'm with those that are curious about how well this device will work. However *IF* you can simply move the mouse and aim at opponents in a split second while others are trying to do the same with an analog stick (albeit a helluvalot slower) I don't see how you can say that wouldn't completely unbalance games like Rainbow Six or Ghost Recon. Anyone that played Quake III on the Dreamcast online will attest to how frustrating it was having players using a K+M playing alongside those with a gamepad. It was just a ridiculous sight to behold. The K+M players just had a HUGE advantage.

 

Brian noted above how these games are designed with a game pad in mind and connecting a mouse and keyboard will not change the fundamental basics of a game (unlike Quake III which I believe was designed with K+M support from the get-go). I honestly think that will hold true and we will have very little to worry about with this. We'll have to wait and see though...

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I'd certainly like to check one out just to see how it works, but it'd be something I'd never use with the LCVG crew for live play. If it does work well, you can just about completely write off sponsored Halo clan tourneys, you know people will be playing with keyboards and MX1000's. As for the PS2 version, well, there'd be no going back to SOCOM again, it was bad enough with the gamesharking that was going on.

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I think that (if the thing does work well, of course) the fact that Xbox games are designed for thumbsticks will make the thing even more deadly.

 

Just imagine how huge that auto-aiming circle in RS3 would seem with a mouse! I know most games don't go to that extreme to help with not-so-precise thumbstick aiming, but they do usually try to help out in some way. And plain old mouse aiming (as in most PC shooters) is already too precise if you ask me. Add in any assistance (like in RS3) and it'd be ludicrous.

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More news on the adapter at Gamespot:

 

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/10/05/news_6109748.html

 

"SmartJoy FRAG is a unique adapter that allows you to connect standard PS/2 compatible mice and keyboards to your PlayStation 2 or Xbox console," said the company in a statement on its Web site. "You will be able to enjoy First-Person Shooters (FPS), or any other game where targeting is important, the way they are meant to be played." The site offers video of the device being used with SOCOM II and Halo, in which it claims to have "doubled hit rates in all tested First-Person Shooters." SmartJoy FRAGs will also support advanced features such as mouse inversion and deadzones.

 

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Originally posted by Orpheus@Oct 6 2004, 09:38 AM

Great, this is going to almost be a must needed thing to play with the unwashed masses. :roll: Definately won't be playing FPS's with anyone other than people on my friends list once this thing comes out.

Yep, this will single-handedly destroy the fun of FPS online. People will no longer be on the same playing field.

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Still, as Dogbert mentioned, how precise will this be? I mean, mouse movement on a PC is pretty much free of constraints. I'd have to imagine this device emulates joystick movents at a high rate of speed in order to accomplish this. With that said, will current games allow such quick movents?

 

[EDIT] Rereading dogberts post, I pretty much reiterated what he said :oops:

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mouse movement on a PC is pretty much free of constraints

 

A maximum sensitivity constraint may mean that mousers can't turn around instantly but it won't constrain their precision when it comes fine-tuning their aim for the headshot :?

 

And even with the constraints, thumbstick users generally have to find a balance between quick turning and precise aiming. If the mousing is precise enough you'd be able to use max sensitivity and still have really precise aiming.

 

The company using that "the way they are meant to be played" line really gets to me. Not just because it's BS, but because I know people who believe it. I've seen people pick up an Xbox controller for the first time to play Halo multiplayer and they say things like "Oh my God, how can anyone play a shooter with these controls? These games were meant for a keyboard and mouse." One guy I'm thinking of in particular might actually buy an Xbox to get on Live with Halo 2 just because of the SmartJoy FRAG.

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Originally posted by FreakTornado@Oct 6 2004, 01:20 PM

My main problem with console FPS games is the control, I guess I'm lame, but I can't get over the weird feeling of using a stick to aim and move. This might actually get me to play FPS games on a console.

How long have you ever played one? After playing all the way through Halo I still struggled with the controls. Took me a long time to get comfortable with it.

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