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Sam P

Input Wars

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You can care about your ranking, and competitive online play, without being a "stat whore".

 

I think that is his point. Caring about such things and ONLY caring about such things are two very different mindsets.

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The real stat whores are the guys who brag about their kill counts in Battlefront when they haven't done dick in terms of playing as a team member or at least defending the command posts. :)

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It won't be as fast/instant as native mouse support, because it will be constrained by the coded limits of joypad support. For example, you won't be about to whip around 180 degrees in .01 seconds like you can with true native mouse support; you also probably won't be able to target as quickly. There is also the disadvantage of no analog movement (run/retreat/strafe) with the keyboard.

 

That's a great point. It won't actually be like Mouse aiming on the PC.

 

Sounds like it won't be such a big advantage, after all.

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That's a great point. It won't actually be like Mouse aiming on the PC.

 

Sounds like it won't be such a big advantage, after all.

 

It could still be. You can whip a mouse around a lot faster than you can jerk a joystick around. And if SmartJoy FRAG users can use maximum sensitivity settings while still having really precise aim... they could still be kicking ass in both the turning and aiming wars.

 

I can't wait to hear how well the damn thing actually works :)

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I can't wait to hear how well the damn thing actually works

 

http://gear.ign.com/articles/558/558944p1.html

 

Halo just works damn fine with the SmartJoy FRAG. Movement is as smooth as butter and being able to spin around or look anywhere quickly is a godsend. Our only complaint with this is that the vertical movement is slower than the horizontal, but that's not too big a deal. Hopefully Halo 2 has options for both.

 

Sean

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I'll add another quote from that story to give the above quote a little more context...

 

So the main question here is, "How well does it work?" The answer is actually entirely dependant on what game you're playing. It can range from being OK to excellent, depending on the title. The problem is that some games compensate a whole lot for joystick use, and this doesn't always translate well to mouse use.

 

They go on to say that Rainbow 6 & Serious Sam for example are nowhere near as effective with it as Halo or TimeSplitters 2.

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I want this because I could play Halo 2 and not feel like I'm playing with my feet. But I know that I'd want to go online with it and I'm not interested in having a technical advantage on everyone else.

 

Then again, even if I just player single player, I presume that this would unbalance that too...

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Well, as this thread was pulled out of the Halo 2 thread, I felt that was the most applicable.

 

Yep, I just wanted to balance the positives with the negatives for people who don't follow the link.

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Originally posted by dogbert@Oct 22 2004, 04:00 AM

They go on to say that Rainbow 6 & Serious Sam for example are nowhere near as effective with it as Halo or TimeSplitters 2.

Now I'm intrigued. There's a wonderful game hidden in Timesplitters 2, but I've never got along with the 'switch on and off targeting mode' controls that also exist in GoldenEye. Yes, that means I never was any good at GoldenEye, and indeed failed to finish it.

 

Does this mean I have to resign as a moderator?

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After reading that review,all I can say is that if there was any possible way for Microsoft to be able to scan for it & somehow disable its functions - that it would do so.

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Originally posted by iainl@Oct 22 2004, 04:15 AM

Now I'm intrigued. There's a wonderful game hidden in Timesplitters 2, but I've never got along with the 'switch on and off targeting mode' controls that also exist in GoldenEye. Yes, that means I never was any good at GoldenEye, and indeed failed to finish it.

 

Does this mean I have to resign as a moderator?

No,though that means I'll have to find another way to punish you for your transgression... :twisted: ;)

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Thanks for the link. We'll have to see how well it works for HALO 2. If it works as well as is claimed for HALO 1, it could be a huge advantage.

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Originally posted by Sam P@Oct 22 2004, 07:08 PM

Thanks for the link. We'll have to see how well it works for HALO 2. If it works as well as is claimed for HALO 1, it could be a huge advantage.

I suspect it will be the same, unless they explicitly coded it to respect the limits of joystick input, which would be an odd thing to do, unless they saw this coming.

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I'm just not sure what to make of this. I mean on the one hand its nice to have this type of device available but on the other hand I just fear it will ruin games that were designed for the xbox controller. I guess I'll wait and see how popular they become. If lots of Xbox gamers start using it then I'm sure I will as well.

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Originally posted by Cyberwoo@Oct 23 2004, 02:02 PM

I'm just not sure what to make of this. I mean on the one hand its nice to have this type of device available but on the other hand I just fear it will ruin games that were designed for the xbox controller. I guess I'll wait and see how popular they become. If lots of Xbox gamers start using it then I'm sure I will as well.

I was thinking of that too. I mean, if it can make you more competitive or make the game more enjoyable or easier to control, why not? There are some on here who think it'll "ruin" the online game experience, but noone's stopping them from getting one too.

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I was thinking of that too. I mean, if it can make you more competitive or make the game more enjoyable or easier to control, why not? There are some on here who think it'll "ruin" the online game experience, but noone's stopping them from getting one too.

 

More competitive? Huh? Is a mouse accuracy competition "more competitive" than a thumbstick accuracy competition simply because mice allow people to be more accurate?

 

Is a sniper rifle accuracy competition more competitive than a handgun accuracy competition because sniper rifles enable people to shoot more accurately? Or are the snipers simply playing a different game? And would someone bringing a sniper rifle to the handgun competition make any sense?

 

Is every single one of those sentences a question? :|

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I was thinking of that too. I mean, if it can make you more competitive or make the game more enjoyable or easier to control, why not? There are some on here who think it'll "ruin" the online game experience, but noone's stopping them from getting one too.

 

 

 

I don't agree with you.And here's why.

The Xbox is a console videogaming machine. It isn't a PC,no matter how much PC gamers wish it was. Microsoft hasn't made a keyboard/mouse controller for the Xbox, & I feel with good reason.

 

By keeping it to gamepads only,it makes things fair across a level playing field.A keyboard/mouse combo,in the hands of a decent gamer,gives you a very distinct advantage over those with gamepads. You don't see young kids playing with a k/m combo,do you?

 

If the Xbox was meant to be played at a desk,on a computer monitor,or if Microsoft had come out with their own k/m controller,it would be a different story,ala what Sega did with the Dreamcast.

 

Not only have they not done so, they haven't even endorsed a third-party company,like Nyko, to make one.

 

Therein lies the difference. If I wanted to use a k/m,I'd be a PC gamer. If Halo 2/Ghost Recon 2/Rainbow Six 3/any Xbox game were made with the use of a k/m in mind, it would be different.

 

People can say what they want,but that is how I see the issue. Furthermore,not only will there be no SmartJoy Frags used in any Halo 2 clan that I'm running - if you plan to get one of these things & use them - don't invite me into your game. I'm not having any of it, & I don't want any part of it. End of story.

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Dreamcast had mouse/keyboard, and it was playable with Quake III (along with other titles). Xbox has a keyboard for Phantasy Star Online. PS1 and Genesis had mouse. I don't think any of these consoles were trying to be PCs. Supporting mouse/keyboard would in no way hurt the identity of the Xbox as a game console.

 

Microsoft could have avoided this whole mess by officially supporting mouse/keyboard from day one, and by having the game developers allow voluntary segregation of mouse/joypad players. A game could even be written to have 'joypad-only clans' and 'mouse clans', who wouldn't play each other in official matches or even have the same ranking system. Anyone hosting a game could choose to not allow mouse players. If they had done this, there wouldn't be enough of a market for anybody to go to the large effort (this is no trivial piece of engineering) to create the Smartjoy FRAG. And we wouldn't have this problem.

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Microsoft could have avoided this whole mess by officially supporting mouse/keyboard from day one

 

Or they didnt want M/K used so they do not support the use of a m/k and do not sanction 3rd parties to make them available for xbox.

 

capt

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Or they didnt want M/K used so they do not support the use of a m/k and do not sanction 3rd parties to make them available for xbox.

 

Well, then they were ignorant.

 

They had three choices.

 

1) An official solution that they and the developers can control.

2) An unofficial solution that nobody can control.

3) Stick their head in the sand, and live in a fantasy world pretending that (2) won't happen.

 

Of course, they were ignorant on other things. The Xbox will not be hacked. The Xbox will not run Unix. Etc.

 

Hopefully their future decisions are based on reality, not fantasy.

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Microsoft could have avoided this whole mess by officially supporting mouse/keyboard from day one, and by having the game developers allow voluntary segregation of mouse/joypad players. A game could even be written to have 'joypad-only clans' and 'mouse clans', who wouldn't play each other in official matches or even have the same ranking system. Anyone hosting a game could choose to not allow mouse players. If they had done this, there wouldn't be enough of a market for anybody to go to the large effort (this is no trivial piece of engineering) to create the Smartjoy FRAG. And we wouldn't have this problem.

 

I completely agree.Hopefully this is something that they will do in the future,or they,IMHO, can forget about getting the casual gamers into playing online.

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Didn't Microsoft not support k/m for the Xbox to further distance the console from the PC? An early industry/fanboy criticism was that the Xbox would be a "port machine" of PC titles or was simply a repackaged, crappy PC.

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