PSP Vs. Nintendo DS

[Camp]

Nintendo's dominance of the handheld market has ended. In two years they'll have nothing left.

It's a little sad.

[secretvampire]

Nintendo's dominance of the handheld market has ended. In two years they'll have nothing left.

It's a little sad.

 

Seriously, I think that is a bit premature to say the least.

[Camp]

That's what predictions are: premature.

 

That's my assessment of the market. I think it a very valid posibility. Show the DS next to the PSP in any retail store on earth and then reveal that there is only a $35 difference between the two.

The vast majority of shoppers will select the PSP.

 

Japan gets the early launch. Let's watch their numbers this year. So long as the PSP doesn't hit any catistrophic issues (quality control) it ought to kill the DS.

 

The good thing is that the PSP's pricing might allow us to see a $99 DS that much sooner.

[The Daisy]

Nintendo's dominance of the handheld market has ended. In two years they'll have nothing left.

It's a little sad.

 

Ugh. I thought we were beyond stuff like this in here.

 

Glen

[Romier S]

Ugh. I thought we were beyond stuff like this in here.

 

To be fair Glen, Camp did follow up the post with the reasonings behind it. As well as noting it's nothing more than a personal prediction (not one I agree with entirely but a prediction nonetheless).

[Camp]

Ugh. I thought we were beyond stuff like this in here.

 

Likewise.

[iainl]

Well, the market does have a history of killing technically superior machines that suffer from short battery life, so I'm not making any huge predictions just yet.

 

Plus, you know that its only going to take a new Pok?mon title to make the DS fly off the shelves. I'm seriously confused as to why Nintendo didn't stick the 'Gameboy' brand from it, and fear that this might harm sales.

 

Myself, I'm still erring towards the DS, thanks to new Mr. Driller and that Mario64 port. The PSP has certainly got itself back in the game with the price, but for the last few Gameboy iterations, I've failed to resist an entire launch weekend.

[JFo]

Myself, I'm still erring towards the DS, thanks to new Mr. Driller and that Mario64 port.

 

Tonight I watched some of the presentation Nintendo recently gave to press concerning the DS. During that presentation, they highlighted Super Mario 64 DS. Yes, this new version shares a lot in common with the old game. However, there appear to be enough differences (in my mind at least) to say that this is far more than your standard port. Take, for instance, the fact that you start the game off as Yoshi, and you'll begin to understand what I'm talking about. The game also features 150 stars to find as opposed to 120, new levels, and the ability to play as four unique characters, all with different abilities.

 

In case you can't tell, I actually got excited when I saw all this. It's like playing an old game you love, but with a myriad of little enhancements. Trust me, this will be the killer app to own at launch.

 

Oh, and Metroid Prime Hunters looks like the proverbial shizzle for hizzle. :drool:

[iainl]

Mario is indeed so much more than a plain port. But, as someone who still thinks Mario64 is the greatest game ever (EVAR!!!) what really interests me is plain ol' playing it, irrespective of the additions.

[MrMike]

Show the DS next to the PSP in any retail store on earth and then reveal that there is only a $35 difference between the two.

 

You forget about the whole "billy has it so I want it too factor" that nintendo portables enjoy. All it takes is one kid on a block or in a school to get a ds and all his friends want the same thing. Parents will buy what is cheaper for their kids also. You have to admit the sony one looks more grown up than the nintendo one. Parents will buy what looks more kid friendly as opposed to what is better. I see more 18 year olds on up buying the sony and more little kids getting the nintendo device.

 

Its going to be extremely difficult for sony to convince the millions of parents that their device is better than a new nintendo device with nintendo's huge reputation with the gameboy making them stand tall.

[secretvampire]

That's my assessment of the market. I think it a very valid posibility. Show the DS next to the PSP in any retail store on earth and then reveal that there is only a $35 difference between the two.

The vast majority of shoppers will select the PSP.

 

Well, to be fair, here is my assessment (and stated as a personal opinion, not a foregone conclusion):

 

I believe that people like you or I aren't driving the handheld market, it's the younger set. Parents are still going to go for the cheaper price, the Nintendo name (read: "kid-friendly", and I don't mean that in a negative way), and the platform where their kids can get Pokemon games and Sponge-bob videos. Another thing is the design, I can see the clamshell DS design being able to take more abuse. That PSP screen is big and gorgeous, but you won't see me letting my little nephews and nieces use it because I'm betting it is a bit more fragile than the DS (pure speculation).

 

This is NOT to say the PSP won't be successful, I know a lot of gamers like us plan on getting one. I just don't see it taking over the majority of market share in its first generation. That's a bit of a tall order, the Game Boy has been entrenched for 3 generations now and with their backwards compatibility has a library of thousands of games.

 

To sound the death-knell for a company that keeps well over a billion dollars IN CASH based on pricing seems...PREMATURE. Nintendo has been making money hand over fist with the GBA and GBA SP, and even though the Gamecube hasn't been overwhelmingly succesful, I would venture a guess that it has been somewhat profitable.

[Camp]

Sony is taking advantage of a generation who grew up with a Gameboy. It's really the same marketing strategy they used when launching the Playstation.

 

When the Playstation came out the console industry was dominated by parents buying for their kids. Sony created the older gamer market by aiming a high-tech game box squarely at the needs/wants of older gamers who grew up with Nintendo. Sony is doing the exact same thing with the PSP. You're 100% correct that the handheld market is currently dominated by parents and their kids. However, holding on to that view in the PSP era will prove to be short-sighted. Sony will alter the kiddie image of handheld gaming.

 

The scenario is virtually identical to when the Playstation was first introduced. Nintendo is the only real competition and they stubbornly refuse to alter their strategies. Because I see so many obvious similarities to the state of the handheld market and that of the console market circa 1995 I really don't see Sony failing. They did it then with only a plan...today they're operating with that plan and the experience of having successfully implemented the plan once before. Add to that the fact that Nintendo hasn't altered their strategy in the slightest making Sony's job that much easier.

 

There will certainly be a market for the DS, don't get me wrong, but the PSP will be the market leader in two years time. Nintendo is unwilling/unable to compete and will thus find themselves as runners up in the handheld market for the first time.

[JFo]

I'm sorry, Camp, but I fail to see how releasing a brand new system which is a significant upgrade from the GBA, both in terms of technology and functionality is an indication that Nintendo is not willing to compete. I would think it's quite the opposite.

[Josh]

Jeff: Actually, sounds to me like the N64, if we were to follow iCamp's argument through.

 

It's impossible to say right now where things will land, but I must admit that I'm much more interested in the PSP right now. I've never had much interest in Gameboy or its titles, but the more adult-oriented titles on the PSP entice me. I'm their demographic, and so far, I'm sniffing the bait.

 

This just came out, and it's right on topic:

 

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1522065763128497/

[Camp]

I'm sorry, Camp, but I fail to see how releasing a brand new system which is a significant upgrade from the GBA, both in terms of technology and functionality is an indication that Nintendo is not willing to compete. I would think it's quite the opposite.

 

I don't think a handheld N64 is much competition for a handheld PS2 -dual screens or not. Still, I don't mean to suggest that it matters what I think about the two devices (I actually like them both) but I know the public will find the PSP much sexier.

With an insignificant $35 price difference the PSP hammers home it's sex appeal with a bit of value.

[JFo]

I don't think a handheld N64 is much competition for a handheld PS2 -dual screens or not.

 

I think it may be a bit unfair to say that the DS is a handheld N64 with two screens, when it can do quite a bit more. Yes, it has the two screens, but it also has wireless connectivity, the touch screen and stylus, WiFi support, a built-in microphone, and backwards compatibility with all GBA games. That last one in particular I think will be a huge selling point for the device, in much the same way the PS2's ability to play PS1 games served as a selling point for it.

 

Still, I don't mean to suggest that it matters what I think about the two devices (I actually like them both) but I know the public will find the PSP much sexier. With an insignificant $35 price difference the PSP hammers home it's sex appeal with a bit of value.

 

The same could have been said about the Atari Lynx when that came out, or the Sega Game Gear. There is a proven history in both the handheld and home console market that selling the most advanced machine does not guarantee dominance in the market place. If that were true, GameBoy would have been crushed years ago, and who knows where Nintendo would be today?

 

I still believe that the handheld market differs significantly from the home console market, because other issues like durability and battery life play a role in the system's success. Most importantly though, I still think the majority of those who play handheld games are young kids who rely on their parents to buy the systems for them. With that, let me just go on record as saying that I believe both the DS and PSP are too expensive to be as dominant as the GBA is at $99. I think if Nintendo wanted to crush the PSP, they should have launched the system at that price point. Now, the race will probably be much closer in my opinion.

 

I do think the PSP is going to be successful to some degree. At the very least, it will enjoy more success than every other device that has gone up against the GameBoy for no other reason than it boast the Playstation moniker, and will be feature some impressive technology for a handheld at a competitive price next to the DS. Again, to say that Nintendo will have nothing left in two years because of the PSP is premature and foolhardy.

 

Why not wait until we see how the public reacts to both systems before making any bold declarations?

[JoeyN]

One word

 

 

Pokemon

 

 

 

 

capt

[Camp]

The same could have been said about the Atari Lynx when that came out, or the Sega Game Gear. There is a proven history in both the handheld and home console market that selling the most advanced machine does not guarantee dominance in the market place. If that were true, GameBoy would have been crushed years ago, and who knows where Nintendo would be today?

 

Atari & Sega are not Sony. They had very limited resources and both treated the handheld market as a secondary source of revenue. They made the mistake of releasing great (at the time) hardware and not backing it with high quality games and marketing. They were wholey unprepared to deal with Nintendo. None of that is the case with Sony.

 

I still believe that the handheld market differs significantly from the home console market, because other issues like durability and battery life play a role in the system's success. Most importantly though, I still think the majority of those who play handheld games are young kids who rely on their parents to buy the systems for them.

 

The current state of the handheld market is just as you describe. It is a younger aged market.

For Sony to suceed in usurping Nintendo they must create an entire market of older gamers willing to go handheld. Not an easy task but one which they excel at (creating markets for Walkman, Playstation, and multiple audio/video formats). Sony's speciality is the creation of new markets for the various gizmos they make.

 

Again, to say that Nintendo will have nothing left in two years because of the PSP is premature and foolhardy.

 

Why not wait until we see how the public reacts to both systems before making any bold declarations?

 

Because this is a discussion forum!

If I came in here and made such "bold declarations" without backing them up I could understand a little friendly venom. Countering my points is the expeced response. These trite responses added to posts reek of fanboyism. Seriously, why on earth would I wait until after these systems are released to make a comment on them? I get the feeling some members don't want to read anything potentially negative about Nintendo. If someone came in here with a viable theory for why Sony would loose the next console round there would not be nearly as much debate. Something about involving Nintendo seems to stir emotions and dull reason. I happen to love Nintendo and it pains me to see what's happening. It's clear they face very serious threats and will likely never be the industry leader they were so proud to be for many years.

 

Counter my arguement, tell me to go to hell, but leave the veiled fanboy statements at IGN.

[Mark E]

Because this is a discussion forum!

 

Nintendo's dominance of the handheld market has ended. In two years they'll have nothing left.

 

That's great. Explain how one of these jives with the other. Oh that's right, because if it involves Sony, it's NOT fanboyism? Give me a break. I'm going to call total bullshit on your "discussion" wherein you completely give nothing resembling, say, market data or even court of public opinion (beyond your own, and an 'n of 1' study ain't cutting the mustard for me, sorry) that would back your claims up and then project an end-game for Nintendo that you have zero concept of whether it will come to pass.

 

If you have precognitive abilities, well, sorry, but until that time I'm waiting to see what you said exactly that is supposed to provoke discussion and not sound like throwing rocks at a beehive just to stir shit up.

[Josh]

I tend to agree with iCamp on this one. There's nothing wrong with saying he believes the PSP will floor the DS. It's speculation. It's interesting.

 

Anyway, look at the facts. Nintendo has never seen a viable competitor enter the market. The Atari Lynx and other units you talked about were failures because of software and support issues. Those companies didn't have the consumer electroonics background either. We all know how well the Nokia NGage is doing.

 

People see Sony and the PlayStation as *the* gaming company these days. Look at the numbers and you'll see that Sony is the brand name in gaming. When they come out with a portable unit baring the "Playstation" logo, it will sell, and sell well. As such, Nintendo's dominance in the are will end. They will still sell Gameboys and DS's, but they will not hold the dominance they once did.

 

Also, consider the fact that the PSP is going to be attractive to an older audience. The DS, using cartridges and featuring Pokemon titles, will still be the unit kids will want and get. No doubt, many kids will want the PSP, but mom and dad might still buy the Nintendo unit once salespeople tell them crap about UMDs and batteries and reliability.

 

People like me, however, will snatch up the PSP and actually use it. I have a Gameboy, Gameboy Color, and Gameboy Advance, none of which I use on a regular basis. I occasionally use them to pass the time on a long plane trip, but that occurs maybe once or twice a year.

 

I can see myself getting into the PSP on a regular basis.

 

Sony is doing what they did with the PlayStation - they're creating a market.

[Romier S]

project an end-game for Nintendo that you have zero concept of whether it will come to pass

 

Well that's the point Mark, he doesn't have to have any concept of whether it will come to pass or not. He noted that it was a prediction and nothing more. I think people are still hung up on Camps original comments instead of looking at the arguments made afterwards. Furthermore, I am having a hard time wondering where the cries of fanboyism are coming from here? I can fully understand why Camp's prediction, taken at face value, could have been taken as such but his follow up replies have done a good job of setting a level of precedence for why he made said predictions. I think there are some valid points about Sony's marketing strategy and how it helped them conquer the home console market and most importantly how that same strategy could strike gold for them twice.

 

The same could have been said about the Atari Lynx when that came out, or the Sega Game Gear. There is a proven history in both the handheld and home console market that selling the most advanced machine does not guarantee dominance in the market place. If that were true, GameBoy would have been crushed years ago, and who knows where Nintendo would be today?

 

To be fair Jeff, both of those systems never stood the chance that the PSP does today. Sony is the current market leader for home consoles and has an emormous amount of third party support backing them. If the price point mentions holds true (or is even cheaper) then Nintendo will, for the first time, have some serious competition in the handheld market place. Especially if the PSP sees even half the game support the PS2 sees.

 

If you have precognitive abilities, well, sorry, but until that time I'm waiting to see what you said exactly that is supposed to provoke discussion and not sound like throwing rocks at a beehive just to stir shit up.

 

I'm kind of suprised by this statement Mark as I don't think Camp's intention was to "stir up shit" at all. If he had made his original comment and simply exited the thread without even looking back, I would be right there with you. However, that is not at all what happened here. I know there is a contingent of folks here that have a great passion for Nintendo and thier products (I am one of those people) but there is room to discuss all scenarios including those that involve Nintendo possibly losing the upper hand in the portable market or gaining even bigger ground (which I would be very interested to hear a counterargument on. Joey touched on Pokemon, how about we expand on that?).

 

I have to agree with this statement to an extent:

 

Counter my arguement, tell me to go to hell, but leave the veiled fanboy statements at IGN.

 

In the past when I've read through the DS and PSP threads and when the PSP was mentioned the comments that followed were: "All there is is a spec list and some in development games. How is it going to compete?" Well, now we have a spec list, a growing list of games in development, a price point, battery life and a slew of extra features from movie playback to the ability to play MP3's. Let's talk about how it's going to be competitive now and what Nintendo will do to counter those features and maintain the hold it has had on the portable market for years now.

[kelley]

I'm with Camp and Stencil on this one too, the DS is simply not enough to counter the PSP. Sony will market the living crap out of the PSP and will make sure all the hot rappers, celebs, etc carry one or atleast talk about it. Lets talk price points, with the DS at $149 and the PSP at $184 we are talking about dollar amounts that most parents will begin to truely balk at for a portable device, I couldn't tell you how many times I heard from parents what if little johnny looses it does that fall under a replacement plan. These two devices are both priced at a point for people older with much more discretionary income. Those people just happen to be what I lovingly call the "PlayStation Generation", those who loved Nintendo as a kid, quit playing as soon as puberty hit, went to school, then got a job and realized how much life sucked so went back to videogames and guess who was there waiting on them with flashy cool marketing that "spoke" to them, Sony and guess who is going to be there again with a device that surfs the net, plays mp3s, plays movies, and plays PS2 quality games....Sony. The days of Nintendo dominating the handheld market are quickly disappearing, and what I'm afraid of most is with that gone Nintendo might be gone also.

 

This is just my personal feelings on it.

[Romier S]

The days of Nintendo dominating the handheld market are quickly disappearing, and what I'm afraid of most is with that gone Nintendo might be gone also.

 

I personally would not go that far either. I'm not much for the Nintendo doom and gloom mentality (not too say that was your point Kelley) and thankfully, the people here are open to more possibilities in that regard. I think Nintendo will be around for sometime to come and with the Revolution being developed and thier handheld strategy in order (not too mention the profits rolling in), the outlook isn't quite so grim.

 

I personally am not interested in the DS but I also don't think Nintendo will lie down and be trompled over without a fight. The new DS redesign (as well as the sleek and sexy packaging design) is one examply of Nintendo trying to compete with a "sexier" PSP. Thier "How to Score" ad was probably the biggest progess I've seen Nintendo make in changing thier marketing strategy around. I think they are aware that the DS needs to appeal to an older crowd and have the examples above prove to me that they are willing to make changes to defend thier market. This time around they can't be half-assed about it though, they need to continue changing and evolving thier strategy and not fall back to the "Buy this because it has Nintendo games on it" mantality. They *NEED* third party support and they need alot of it. That strategy has ot worked well for the Gamecube and I think Nintendo knows it.

[rustyjaw]

Not to get too sidetracked into a discussion of the thread itself rather than the contents of it, I do think the Camp's initial post that "Nintendo's dominance of the handheld market has ended," by itself, is not the kind of commentary we want here. I'm not saying he doesn't have valid arguments, but IMO they should have been presented in that initial post.

 

I don't mean to single you out Camp, because you are not alone here, I'm sure I've done this too. But really, I think we should all practice going beyond one-liners if we want to make a case for sweeping statements.

 

Now, that said, I mostly agree with Camp. Notice this is not saying that the PSP is a "better" gaming device, if anything I think it's a very conservative move for Sony. It's not terribly imaginative, it's almost obvious to take a home console and make it small enough to carry around. Sure, it's a feat of engineering, but it's not a feat of imagination.

 

The opposite could be said of the DS. It's risky, it's imaginative, it's bold. And it would be a real shame if Nintendo wasn't rewarded for it (as long as the games are as fun as they look). But Nintendo is taking a risk, and it's a big one IMO. I think it's more likely to fail than the PSP simply because it doesn't fit so easily into the current mold of console or handheld gaming.

 

EDIT: With that risk comes the possibility that Nintendo can redefine handheld gaming, and come out with a device that every kid MUST have, but right now, before the fact, I think the "burden of proof," so to speak, is on Nintendo.

[Mark E]

he doesn't have to have any concept of whether it will come to pass or not.

 

No, exactly, but when you open up talking like it is and then don't make any follow-up to that statement until challenged, it doesn't jive with me. Sorry, but it doesn't. If I start up a thread claiming Nintendo won the console wars and owns all other systems I damn well expect to get called on it and rightfully denounced. I don't see what the hell is any different here? Putting up an opinion that reads like pure flame bait and then backing it up when somebody challenges you on something, and let's be clear in timeline here, that did not happen until after Camp was challenged, is apparently fine.

 

For some reason there's still this thing where some of us aren't allowed to enjoy a Nintendo product without getting this fanboy monicker. I mean, this site is mainly devoted to X-Box anyway, not through anybody's fault, but it's there and I don't think there's anything wrong with it. But denouncing Glen for fanboyism when he called out a statement, where I have not yet seen proof it was initially posted with anything to back it up, is crap. It is pure crap and I don't care if it's about how much the PSP is going to rock or how the DS will do taxes and commit the perfect crime to make you six million dollars.

 

If he had made his original comment and simply exited the thread without even looking back, I would be right there with you.

 

And I think if this had been met with 'hell yeah!' then nothing would have happened, personally. Which is where we'll have to disagree, I suppose. And for what it's worth, I have no problem with Kelley or stencil's comments on this because they sound like opinions to me. Camp's post reads like demagoguery that offers nothing by the way of discussion until a much later second post.

 

Clearly there are many possible interpretations to that, but that's the one I ended up at and the one I'm staying with. If that wasn't the original intent, then I'm still fine with it, because that's not going to change how it reads. And I'm not kosher with Glen getting sniped for calling that original statement out and Camp not for making it.