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Orpheus

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Got mine pricematched at Walmart. You'll definately need the ad from Wednesday's paper for it, and it will still be a YMMV. The people who did it cheaper used the 20% off coupon for Circuit City, although knowing the jackasses that work at mine, there is no way they would combine the coupon with the pricematch. I'll still probably go and try to pm and CC and BB, be good for a return next week for Mech Assault 2. :)

 

Oh yea, saw Tron 2.0 for $19 and change at walmart, will be going back for it after i'm sure xmas shopping is done for others.

 

:tu:

 

The $99 xbox was a Chicago area only deal from a couple weeks ago. The $99 ones were refurbs and stores were not supposed to PM it. Sounds like the guy got a sales person who didn't know better.

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I'll still probably go and try to pm and CC and BB, be good for a return next week for Mech Assault 2. icon_smile.gif

 

:?

 

You're going to get it for $20 and exchange it for a value of $50?

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If I have the time to run around town tonight, quite likely yes. It's much the same as in this thread where people bought extra games at the buy 2 get 1 free discount to trade in at a later date for new games that weren't available at the time of sale. Should we not discuss things such as BB GGC's, Target rainchecks, 2 for 1 sales with gift receipt returns, $5 Platinum hits mispricings on the web, or any other deals that have been posted here or at the HTF before this?

 

OTOH, I could just pick up a couple at this price and trade them in for store credit or ebay them for $15 profit. Would that be better , worse, or the same?

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I'll still probably go and try to pm and CC and BB, be good for a return next week for Mech Assault 2. icon_smile.gif

 

To me this kind of abuse is no different than some things that other members get in trouble for discussing here.

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Originally posted by Beer Monkey@Dec 23 2004, 04:22 PM

I'll still probably go and try to pm and CC and BB, be good for a return next week for Mech Assault 2. icon_smile.gif

 

To me this kind of abuse is no different than some things that other members get in trouble for discussing here.

I have to agree.

I think this might be the perfect opportunity to quote one of the Moderators from an earlier post

that touched on a similar topic.

 

QUOTE (FreakTornado @ Dec 8 2004, 03:32 PM)

 

As far as I'm concerned, this isn't about right vs wrong, Bryan, it's about using a public forum as a place to discuss how to defraud a company. Everyone, including Howie, is free to discuss illegal activities all they want in private, but don't use the forum for this, ever!

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I won't speak for Ed, but isn't that a quote from another topic? I believe that that topic can be easily distinguished from this one.

 

That post dealt with a company who made an offer to people who used a buggy product to their detriment. Comments there, I believe, were directed to someone who did not suffer any detriment from the buggy product but nevertheless publically discussed taking advantage of the offer, but did not suffer the detriment.

 

Here, in contrast, a retail company made an offer, apparently in error. They chose to honor the sale price and some buyers are seeking to avail themselves of the sale price.

 

Where's the problem? I'm not trying to make a smart remark, I really don't understand where there's a problem. If you can help me understand your position, please PM me (or any mod, for that matter) so we can discuss it.

 

-j

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Personally, I think the moderators and owners need to make a stand on this issue, because I don't see much difference between Travis' plan and Howies plan. You're going to have a very split issue on this, and it needs to be addressed.

 

Me, since I don't really care whether or not it "takes advantage of" or "is wrong", I'd do it and not have any qualms about it. I don't care what anyone thinks. Everyones guilty of something that other people think is "wrong".

 

Just my two cents, and all I'm going to say about the issue.

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Like I said, Chris, I understand that there are differing views here. I just don't understand the opposing view fully and would very much appreciate if someone could PM me and explain their thoughts.

 

I think, generally speaking, both the members here and our LCVG team are reasonable people. I'd like those people to feel free to contact me to talk about this.

 

We don't want to lock this thread or make a position statement until we understand all the positions and all the facts clearly. I think that's reasonable.

 

In the mean time, don't post your thoughts in this thread -- instead, send them to me so we can talk about it and gather more information.

 

-j

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Here, in contrast, a retail company made an offer, apparently in error. They chose to honor the sale price and some buyers are seeking to avail themselves of the sale price.

 

Where's the problem?

 

Orpheus is planning on buying GR2 for $19.99, clearly a misprint. Then he plans on taking that game back and saying it was a gift and trading it for another game, valued at $49.99, thereby defrauding the retailer out of $30.

 

If he just wanted to get a good deal on GR2, it'd be no big deal, but the rest is no different than Howie's situation. Which is also no different than the TRU 3 for 2 deals. I have no problem with any of them.

 

The problem is that some people can post about this stuff freely, while others get jumped on and "reprimanded".

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Orpheus is planning on buying GR2 for $19.99, clearly a misprint. Then he plans on taking that game back and saying it was a gift and trading it for another game, valued at $49.99, thereby defrauding the retailer out of $30.

 

That is also my view on the situation and it has been since I saw this thread. I think this issue and the PS2 Jampack thread are similiar enough to warrant discussion. Of which there has been a thread in the private admin forum and since then a thread created in the moderator discussion forum to further discuss the problem (as there was during the situation with Howie and any situation that arises here on LCVG.) Now that we have my stance out in the open and some relative information, let me say a couple of things:

 

First of all, the "Ghost Recon 19.99" thread is not the place to discuss these issues in nor is any other thread for that matter. In fact any conversation regarding how this forum is run; be it a discussion about how moderation is handled, a general grievance with any given situation on the forum, or if you just want to tell us the color orange is getting on your nerves. There is a site feedback area specifically setup to discuss these issues in the view of the public eye (as well as a "report post" function and a private PM/Email to any of the owners/supermods/mods if discretion is on the agenda). With each passing day I find it more difficult to understand why people feel the need to completely derail a thread to discuss a completely off-topic subject. It is not necessary and I would like to ask a favor of the membership: In the future, if you see something like this develop and have some thoughts you want to share, please create a topic in the Site Feedback area and we'll be glad to talk it over. If you don't agree with a moderator's decision you have every right to contact a supermod (Robot Monkey, FreakTornado, dogbert and CaptDS9E) or one of the owners (myself, Gigapower, Buck) to tell your side of the story.

 

Secondly, the initial feeling on this specific issue was to let things progress and see where the conversation would take us because we really wanted to see what the membership had to say after the problematic PS2 Jampack thread. I'll be completely honest with everyone here and say that the PS2 Jampack thread that was closed recently was handled very poorly. I think any moderator involved in that thread will be the first to say that things got out of hand and emotion got in the way of clear and rational moderation of that situation. What should have been a cut and dry issue turned into a "pileup" of sorts and I do think Howie deserves an (overdue) apology there. Regardless of that, the point of that thread being closed was in keeping with the forum rules and my decision in that thread stands. What was being discussed was not proper for this forum in my eyes. That now stated, I do believe that decision applies to this situation as well and what Travis posted is also not in keeping with the forum rules as outlined in the previous Jampack thread. More on that in a bit...

 

Having said that (and since we have an open dialogue going on the problem) I wanted to touch on another issue that has come up lately concerning the moderation of this forum as of late being overly heavy-handed in some situations. I can't stress enough to the members of this forum that this is your community and if that is the feeling I'm hearing, than we need to work at striking a better balance and doing what we can to alleviate that issue. There has been a good amount of discussion in the moderator forum about how to help that by allowing a possible argument to play out longer and letting you guys police yourselves until it's entirely necessary for a moderator to step in. A good example of a monitored

thread that we attempted to do this on was this thread:

 

http://www.lcvg.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5829

 

The first few pages were leading up to an argument that could have turned worse between certain members. We let things go and we let said members work it out and the thread moved right back on track. I felt it was a good step to accomplishing the type of balance we strive for and a great job by our community to keep things in check and work things out.

 

Folks, this isn't a forum where decisions are not discussed with the community. We will be as open as you want us to be as far as the happenings on the forum (within reason of course). We aren't going to get very far if we can't trust the community and working to achieve that trust and balance how we moderate is an ongoing learning process. We have not been, and are by no means perfect but this isn't a one way street gentleman. If you see a problem on LCVG, you need to let us know about it so that we can act on it. We need good criticsm that will help identify problem areas and work those out.

 

Keeping in the same realm of discussion and back to the issue at hand I wanted to comment on:

 

OTOH, I could just pick up a couple at this price and trade them in for store credit or ebay them for $15 profit. Would that be better , worse, or the same?

 

Which is also no different than the TRU 3 for 2 deals. I have no problem with any of them.

 

Chris said it best here:

 

Me, since I don't really care whether or not it "takes advantage of" or "is wrong", I'd do it and not have any qualms about it. I don't care what anyone thinks. Everyones guilty of something that other people think is "wrong".

 

..and thats really the problem. We are dealing with an ethics or moral situation here and we as moderators do not feel it our jobs to the ethics/morals police. Our job is to maintain the discussion on the forum and make sure the rules are being followed. Ideally ethics should not play into these situations but realistically, they do at times. We also don't want to be so rigid in our moderation that we stifle the level of conversation that you guys want to have. I'm certainly open to further interpretations of this particular issue and I would very much appreciate more feedback on what you guys deem acceptable so that we can get an better idea of how to handle a situation such as this one in the future. We cannot draw an ethical line, because that line will be different for each individual and the rules must be enforced regardless. However we can talk about how we interpret these rules and how best to interpret (or further specify them) in the future.

 

The problem is that some people can post about this stuff freely, while others get jumped on and "reprimanded".

 

No, the problem is these back-hand comments that really don't help to resolve a situation and usually just escalate things further. No one on this forum is given special priveleges or allowed to run amuck when they like regardless of what you or anyone else thinks. As noted above, we are not perfect in our moderation nor do we give people special cause to go ahead and break whatever rule they feel like because we said they could.

 

I'll say it again, moderation is a learning process and guess what fellas? Sometimes we fuck up like everyone else. :shock: I'm not above admitting that. Sometimes I think the community isn't sure what it wants either. A few examples I've though upon recently I'd like to share. I've seen complaints about people noting a little winky in a post about having obtained a pirated game or a pirated piece of software. I've also heard complaints about a member starting a thread about a certain popular game a month before it came out and discussing the gameplay in depth. If you take a look at our rule-set guys, there is really nothing explicitly saying "You cannot talk about Pirated games" in this instance. We have the following in our Guidlines and Terms of Use:

 

You are prohibited from posting on or transmitting through the Service any unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, profane, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable material of any kind, including, but not limited to, any material which encourages conduct that would constitute a criminal offense, give rise to civil liability or otherwise violate any applicable local, state, national or international law. LCVG.com may elect to electronically monitor the Service for adherence to the Terms of Service and may disclose any Content, records or electronic communication of any kind (i) to satisfy any law, regulation or authorized governmental request, (ii) if such disclosure is necessary to operate the LCVG.com Service, or (iii) to protect the rights or property of LCVG.com or its partners.

 

12. You must respect the legal rights (such as the rights of privacy and publicity) of others.

 

13. You may not upload files that contain software or other material protected by intellectual property laws (or by rights of privacy of publicity) unless you own or control the rights thereto or have received all necessary consents.

 

Now perhaps we need to be more specific in what we do and don't allow? As with the situation above though, I'd like feedback on this because we don't want to create an atmosphere where you can't talk about coupons/deals/3 for 1's sales etc. You guys should be able to talk about that stuff and I want to know where you think we as moderators should draw the line (in keeping with the rules and guidelines.)

 

I know I've worn your eyes out by now but I think this is a conversation we need to have as a community. Both moderators and members and discuss any problems we want to iron out. I don't know about anyone else but I come here to talk videogames, not to create animosity and scenarios where people think they are being treated to harshly or unfairly. You guys are the lifeblood of this forum so please, talk to us. We are most definitely listening.

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On what's appropriate for discussion, I'd hope the line is drawn based on 'legal' and 'illegal'. If you have to lie, commit fraud, or mislead someone in order to do something, it probably shouldn't be discussed here. For example, buying something cheap somewhere and returning it for more money somewhere else is outright fraud. It is not Walmart's stated policy to pay you $50 for games you bought at Circuit City for $4.99 and are returning under the guise of 'gifts'.

 

If it is just getting the best deal through legal means, then there should be no problem with it. No misrepresentation is involved with exchanging some games at TRU after the sale is over, or using the $5 coupons at Best Buy(although I'd say that some who buy 10 giftcards at once and put a penny each on them are pushing it too far).

 

Really it should be common sense, but I fear that most people ignore common sense when it comes to ethical issues. The 'right' thing to do and the 'personally beneficial' thing to do are not often lined up, which leads to all sorts of wild rationalizations.

 

 

On piracy, a "Don't ask, don't tell" policy seems appropriate. If people want to discuss games in detail before release, let them. There just isn't a need to discuss how said games were aquired. Some people might have detailed pre-release impressions from beta testing and the like, and it would introduce an unnecessary hassle to certify if each poster is 'legit' or not. I don't think most people in this community are fans of piracy, so it should pretty much keep itself in check.

 

 

I think at times, the moderation here can be heavy-handed, almost to the point of being condescending. Adults should generally be able to work out disputes on their own and it seems like the mods occasionally jump in a bit too quickly and obtrusively. Note that I'm not saying I've been a victim of this, I've just noticed it in a few situations. It really annoys me when threads get locked when they're just starting to get good. I think a separate "debate" forum might be good. When a dispute gets out of hand, split the thread off and stick it in the debate forum so the original thread can get back on topic.

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As I am one of the people who took advantage of this offer, I will post my thoughts on it.

 

 

1) I had the KMart flyer with the $19 GR2 ad in it.

2) I took it to Best Buy and asked if they would match that price for the game I had purchased the evening before. They said yes. And they proceeded to do so. I also asked if they would price match it for another purchase of the game for a friend. Again, they said yes.

 

 

At no time did any Best Buy employee call KMart to check for availability or validity of the ad. While looking through the video game section at Best Buy I saw a printed notice several times stating that the Resident Evil video game being advertised for such and such a price was a misprint and the ad used cover art for Resident Evil 4 which has not been released yet, and not the version that was actually on sale. Best Buy apologizes for this misunderstanding but will not be selling Resident Evil 4 for the advertised price in this sales flyer.

 

 

Now, having seen this notice, and being waited on by a manager, I do not feel in any way that I was defrauding Best Buy of anything. When I worked at Toys R Us, it was policy that the advertised game/merchandise HAD to be IN STOCK at the advertising store, and Toys R Us had to call them and verify this.

 

When Circuit City had their big $5 sale, I took some of the games to GameStop and changed them in for store credit. But while I did not tell them I only paid $5 per game, what I was getting in return for them was the going price for those titles at that time. Which was in the $10-$20 range. I do not see that by not volunteering the info that I paid $5 per game is cheating GameStop out of anything. They were following their policy of how much credit to give, just as Best Buy was following the policy of price matching. But while they followed the policy and doing it, they should have confirmed that all the criteria for a price match was met before doing the price match for me.

 

I do not agree with lying to someone to get something for free or discounted. And I do feel that there is a difference in the situation of the Jampack and this price match offer.

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Romier first let me say well said, it need to be said.

 

I know I don't want to see LCVG turn in to some 'clique' forum like I have seen happen to some other forums that I used to belong to.

 

Also I think that if you are going to talk about scamming something, that?s fine it's your first amendment right and all that, but due the public face of LCVG you should do it via emails or PM's and not the open forum. I for see that as being no different then policy you would follow at work, like conflict of interest.

 

You never know who might be lurking.

 

I would hate to see LCVG get shut down because some executive from say "x company" might be lurking, long shot I know but, and see said scam discussions and sent out a seize and desist order to the owners.

 

As far as the debate forum goes I don't know if that?s such a good idea I for see it cause more problems for the community than what it would be worth. I know they used to have a similar thing like that over on HTT, you had to request to be in that forum and all, but it caused more problems then what IT was worth and was eventually shut down.

 

Now I Know that I have been guilty of doing the winking eye thing one how to scam places in the past, however I have kind of opened my eyes to the fact that the forum is not the place to go into they ?step by step? details of how to pull it off, again due to some of the reasoning I mentioned above.

 

That?s all I got for now.

 

- Bob Babcock

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I've returned games at every major retailer, including after christmas time. Every single one of them asked if I had a receipt. Since it is after christmas, and the game is not opened, they will take it back without one. But you have to represent that you lost-the-receipt/got-it-for-a-gift/paid-full-price-for-it in order to get that 50 bucks in trade or cash.

 

That's what makes this fraudulent; the misrepresentation. Illegal? Maybe not, but certainly unethical by many standards, and not really different than the JamPack trick. Not really any different than misrepresenting your 'losses' to Sony in order to get a comped game (which probably costs them $8-$20; not the retail value for sure). Funny thing is that Sony actually did something wrong; they deserve to suffer for their foolishness. But of course they know that most gamers who had their mem card wiped out will never bother to make a claim. If my mem card got wiped, I'd be furious with their token offer. I'd value the damage as having a lot more value than some cheap game. I've got hundreds of hours of effort in that mem card.

 

As far as any concern about corporate repercussions, that is a bit of a joke. LCVG is tiny tiny tiny, and very obscure. Much larger, much more public forums like Atari Age, CheapAssGamers, and YakYak.org discuss many of our verboten topics with no problems from the big gaming companies. AtariAge even has tight relationships and ongoing dialog with many gaming companies, and a little talk of things like modchips, flash cards, and HD Loader doesn't get them in trouble. Big magazines like XBN and TV networks like Tech TV have covered modchip installation details and believe me, like any other media company, they are both visible and also have paranoid lawyers who are going to thoroughly vet such material and suppress it if it will get them in hot water. LCVG doesn't even exist to the public and the gaming industry, and there's no reason to fear talking about what much bigger targets discuss openly.

 

As far as cliques go, LCVG is nothing but cliques. The MMORPG clique has gotten very strong. I'm part of the 'plays Live almost every night' (NOT just for Halo 2) clique; most of us know each other pretty well and we are a VERY small group - kind of surprising; where have all the Live players gone? There's also the clique of all the 'insiders' who hang out in the hidden invite-only 'Asshats' area of this forum (as far as I can tell, this is pretty much public knowledge though it is never discussed here). If anything, over the last year or so LCVG has become increasingly fragmented. But even before then, the lines have been very apparent; we are not all one big group.

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There's also the clique of all the 'insiders' who hang out in the hidden invite-only 'Asshats' area of this forum (as far as I can tell, this is pretty much public knowledge though it is never discussed here).

 

That forum existed for a long time and was closed down months ago specifically because of the fragmentation and issue of "exclusivity" you mentioned. It was never public knowledge except to those who were part of that forum and frankly you mentioning it is the exact reason it no longer exists.

 

The MMORPG clique has gotten very strong.

 

Nor does that group exclude anyone that wishes to join in playing any of the MMO's that are played on a regular basis here. There are members in the current WoW guild that are not even members of this forum or have done very little to contribute to the discussion here. If you don't play an MMO, it's a little difficult to be part of the group wouldn't you say? There is nothing "exclusive" about the people that play MMO's here. If you want in, simply post. I'll even send you the Teamspeak info so you can chat with us while you play. I've made that offer several times for both MMO's and PC online FPS such as CounterStrike etc.

 

Let me ask a question; Do you exclude people from joing your "I play Live every night" group? That to me is the very definition of a clique. If I jump on Live and send you an invite to play any title under the sun, are going to refuse a game invite from me because I'm not part of your clique? If the answer is yes, I don't know what to tell you. If the answer is no then I don't see an issue with having a regular group of friends to play with be it out of preference or necessity.

 

You asked where have all the Live players gone? That's a good question. I certainly can't speak for anyone else but personally I'm utterly bored of Xbox Live in general. The only game that got some real attention out of me was Mortal Kombat Deception in which I have over 250 online matches under my belt (though I play only sporadically now). Besides that game I have little interest in playing much else online on my consoles. The main reason would be because I'm getting back into PC gaming and I find online PC gaming to be far more compelling at the moment. Be it while playing an MMO or a game of Battle for Middle Earth or Half Life 2 DM. I thought that perhaps Halo 2 would get me back into the swing of things as far as Live is concerned but I have very little interest in playing it online.

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That forum existed for a time and was closed down specifically because of the fragmentation you mentioned.

 

It's not really the kind of thing that I bother trying to keep up with; I've never even asked anybody about it. I'm not surprised that I wouldn't know whether it's still there.

 

Regardless, it's just one example. We are very fragmented, for better or for worse.

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It's not really the kind of thing that I bother trying to keep up with; I've never even asked anybody about it. I'm not surprised that I wouldn't know whether it's still there.

 

Yet, you saw fit to mention it; As well as list it as a part of a greater issue. So whether you seek to keep up to date with such things is irrelevant as far as the crux of this conversation is concerned Michael. You were right in saying that it was a problem and it was fragmenting the community. Hence why I wanted to note the current status of said forum for those interested.

 

As far as any concern about corporate repercussions, that is a bit of a joke. LCVG is tiny tiny tiny, and very obscure. Much larger, much more public forums like Atari Age, CheapAssGamers, and YakYak.org discuss many of our verboten topics with no problems from the big gaming companies.

 

That's exactly the purpose of this topic. Perhaps there are some policies that we may need to reevaluate and loosen up a bit on. As long as said topics do not veer in the wrong direction, that is a real possiblity.

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As far as cliques go, LCVG is nothing but cliques. The MMORPG clique has gotten very strong. I'm part of the 'plays Live almost every night' (NOT just for Halo 2) clique; most of us know each other pretty well and we are a VERY small group - kind of surprising; where have all the Live players gone? There's also the clique of all the 'insiders' who hang out in the hidden invite-only 'Asshats' area of this forum (as far as I can tell, this is pretty much public knowledge though it is never discussed here). If anything, over the last year or so LCVG has become increasingly fragmented. But even before then, the lines have been very apparent; we are not all one big group.

 

 

Its not a clique . Its a group of people playing a MMO. If someone else new comes on they can join us playing at anytime. There will never be a time when one of us will say "Hell no you cant play with us". Hell i wish more LCVG members would join playing WOW or COH to get more groups going.

 

As for the Live. I was a person who played Live almost every single night from the time i got xbox till a few months ago. Probably one of the people who played Live the most on this forum. Then i played a game of Battlefront where all i heard was members of this forum bitch and moan about every little aspect of the game. the next night the same exact thing happened. All the bitching and moaning spread to the forum in many threads. So i got turned off to playing on Live with people who ruined the gaming experience. If i wanted to hear bitching all day id get a girlfriend :green: halo 2 came out and i just couldnt get back into gaming on live every night. Mech Assault 2 comes out this week and its something ive looked forward to. Hopefully its so good i cant stay away. I miss live, but I dont miss the bitching

 

capt

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Then i played a game of Battlefront where all i heard was members of this forum bitch and moan about every little aspect of the game. the next night the same exact thing happened. All the bitching and moaning spread to the forum in many threads. So i got turned off to playing on Live with people who ruined the gaming experience. If i wanted to hear bitching all day id get a girlfriend icon_mrgreen.gif halo 2 came out and i just couldnt get back into gaming on live every night. Mech Assault 2 comes out this week and its something ive looked forward to. Hopefully its so good i cant stay away. I miss live, but I dont miss the bitching

 

Oh man, Joey. Battlefront turned you off of Live gaming? Sure there was bitching. Battlefront has a lousy (probably the worst I've encountered) Live interface and some pretty bad lag with connections we thought were solid. For those reasons, there have been exactly zero games since a few days after its release. People migrated back to old favorites and then Halo 2 was released not too long after. The bitching stopped.

 

Halo 2 has seen a MAJOR resurgence in my eyes due to one thing: matchmaking. I don't know why I didn't discover this earlier. Grab a group of friends and fire up a match where everyone is one the same team and you play people who, even if they are asshats, you're not stuck with for anymore than one match. It's very fun. I hope MechAssault gets you back into it.

 

Whether anyone wants to admit it: there ARE cliques here at LCVG. This is beginning to turn into the elephant in the front yard that nobody talks about.

 

Let me address the point that concerns me more than anything. For a site that, from what I can tell, was created to discuss console video games more than anything (Lucid Console Video Games I believe was the first acronym definition), it has moved away from this tremendously, resulting in members who do not partake in computer gaming to a great degree feeling left out in the cold. What happened as a result of this? A clique was formed, just like highschool nerds playing D&D in a friend's basement when they're no good at sports (not that anyone is a nerd!) :). We all know who plays the MMORPGs from watching the Computer forum's discussion. Honestly, I can't remember the last time one of this forum's owners came over to some Live gaming to say "hi" and and have some fun. I know, I know, it's a two-way street. However, the responsibility of this should fall onto the owner's shoulders to bridge the gap. Maintaining harmony here at LCVG certainly isn't something to be taken lightly and simply popping onto Live once every couple of weeks of so have a few friendly games with members who don't partake in other types of online gaming would go a huge distance in cutting down on anomosity.

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Here's my 2 cents:

 

I don't see any problem buying a game for 5, 10, or 20 bucks that someone or some company is selling and trading this game in at another retailer for more money or swapping for another title.

 

Big companies have no problems or ethical issues low balling customers returning items after Christmas without reciepts. My guess is they make millions in profit alone using the technique of returning it for store credit at the lowest price offered in the last 6-12 months. Not only do they retain a huge profit from the item returned, you still have money to spend exclusively in their store and they get to resell the item you returned at full mark up :shock:

 

If you can use sales and store policies to your advantage, go get em :tu:

 

Finally, cliques are human nature. We tend to gravitate to people with similar interests.

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Maintaining harmony here at LCVG certainly isn't something to be taken lightly and simply popping onto Live once every couple of weeks of so have a few friendly games with members who don't partake in other types of online gaming would go a huge distance in cutting down on anomosity.

 

That's a good suggestion, Jeremy. This is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to see on this thread. I'm another person who used to play Live games all the time, but once I got hooked on PC-based MMO's (first City of Heroes and now World of Warcraft) I never looked back. As a gamer, I play WoW because it's what I enjoy playing the most. But as an LCVG moderator, I acknowledge that I could be doing more to interact with our membership and as such I will look to join some Live games more frequently.

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The clique thing was more of an observation than a criticism. Bobbio mentioned he didn't want to see it happen and in my opinion it already has, that's all.

 

In fact, the other night on Live, an LCVG member (one that I haven't played with in quite a while, so if you think you know who it is, you are wrong) mentioned that he felt that LCVG was more fragmented, had cliques, and wasn't as fun as it used to be (paraphrased, but the word 'clique' was used). This is not an isolated opinion.

 

Likewise, the opinion that the forum is overmoderated (sometimes selectively moderated) is not isolated, and it's not just held by those that the mods here would like to consider 'troublemakers'.

 

As far as Live goes, I don't really hear any whining on a nightly basis.

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Ugh, blame it on an eggnog hangover but I just realized my above post wasn't worded particularly well. It almost sounds like I thought I would be doing everyone a favor by playing with them on Live instead of playing WoW, when the truth is I really enjoyed playing with LCVG'ers on Live, whether it was tournaments, short bus play, or playing in smaller groups like Links foursomes. I tend to get completely wrapped up in the MMO's I play to the extent that I forget about everything else, and what I was trying to say is that I look forward to getting back to playing with the group as a whole more often. Sorry if I came off sounding like an ass. :oops:

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It almost sounds like I thought I would be doing everyone a favor by playing with them on Live instead of playing WoW,

 

It didn't sound like that at all. I understood what you meant and I for one appreciate it. :tu:

 

Great to see some discussion on this subject, thanks.

 

J.

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