Pentagon Attack Conspiracy Theory

[Starhawk]

http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon.php

 

Interesting theory that never crossed my mind. What do you think? Seems a bit far fetched to me, but it makes some good points. Should we put Fox Mulder on the case?

 

I think the main fault of the video is it never covers what happened to the 757 and those people if a missle (or something else) actually hit the Pentagon instead?

 

Also, cool soundtrack! :tu

[dogbert]

I think this has been pretty much discredited yet it still does the rounds. Lots of bad science behind the core theories. I'll try to dig up a link or two.

 

I've always been a "conspiracy buff", but I like 'em to pass a hardend look

[Mark E]

Please do, Brian. I'd be interested in seeing them.

 

I too find conspiracy theories entirely fascinating.

[ChoiceStriker]

For starters, there's always the info on Snopes:

 

http://snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

[Mark E]

Thanks muchly.

 

I love the snopes website as well

[Gary P]

Popular Mechanics also has a great read dealing with some of the different conspiracy theories out there. They touch on the Pentagon attack in decent detail.

[JoeyN]

Yeah thats one conspiracy theory that has been blown out of the water on several occasions

 

capt

[Derrik Draven]

Well...as an aircraft maintenance technician, working the flightline for the past 16 years on widebody, jumbo jets....there's one "conspiracy theory" I can tell you is NOT phony.

 

That TWA flight 800 that..."blew up"...several years ago, after leveling off just outside of New York?

 

Was no damn faulty wiring in the fuel tanks! What a crock of shit.

 

Think; surface to air missle.

 

I don't know if it was terrorist bastards or, if the military accidentally shot it down, but it DID NOT explode into pieces, mid-air, because of a spark in bad wiring in the fuel tanks.

 

First thing, there is no such thing as an empty aircraft fuel tank. The fuel tanks on modern airliners are integral tanks. Meaning, they are part of the airframe instead of the old bladder tanks that actually had a large, rubber bladder installed in the airframe.

 

These integral tanks are not flat. They are the empty space in the hollow wings and, the center tank is a large hollow, between the wings, beneath the floor in the middle section of the aircraft. The stringers and longerons that make the skeletal structure of the tank make area after area where fuel puddles and cannot be removed without gounding the aircraft, removing the fuel tank access plates on the bottom of the wing, siphoning out the fuel puddles and then ventilating the tank with a suction/venturi.

 

The fuel tank wires, that go to the densiometers (they give you fuel quantity in pounds), are always submerged in fuel. Even in an "empty" tank. There is that much fuel on the bottom of the tank.

 

Then, there isn't a whole lot of current running to the densiometers. They don't require much power. Then, there is also the fact that all the metal inside the tanks is covered with zinc chromate primer. It's non-conductive. You can't get a spark to leap to it unless it was a scratched off part, exposing the raw metal.

 

Also, jet fuel, while flammable, isn't no where near the flammability of say, gasoline.

 

Take a bucket of jetfuel, throw in a lit match and....you get a wet match.

 

We don't have 747's where I'm at. Not exactly sure what engine TWA had on theirs but, it really doesn't matter; they all work fundamentally the same.

 

So...to light jet fuel. Well, you have to atomize it. The fuel in say, a Pratt/Whitney 4000 (that's what's on our 767er's), is pumped into a spray ring in the burner can. To light off this air/fuel mix, we use what you could consider, a sparkplug on steroids. It's called an ignitor. About 5 inches long and about as round as your thumb. Connected to the exciter, it produces such a powerful spark that when we'd do our ignitor inspections on out 727's, we'd stick our heads out the captains window and hit the fuel lever switch and we could hear the ignitor firing, all the way up at the cockpit, even though it's buried inside the engine assembly.

 

That's the kind of power you need to light off a jetfuel spray.

 

A wire, submerged in jetfuel, no air around it, no where to really ground out to since everything is zinc chromate primer covered, isn't going to produce...dick!!!!

 

This is the biggest friggin' cover up I've ever heard of.

 

Either our military made the biggest fuckup ever, and accidentally shot down an airliner, or....this was a terrorist strike, using a stinger.

 

It was on Clinton's watch. I don't know if that means anything or not.

[JoeyN]

Yeah the 800 was the one off of the Long Island Shore. To this day everyone believes something else happened. There were military excercises going on in the area that night. Put 2 and 2 together.

 

capt

[Camp]

That TWA flight 800 that..."blew up"...several years ago, after leveling off just outside of New York?

 

Interesting.

I just recently read a theory that flight 800 was the victim of a Russian energy weapon. It seemed nuts to me but this same theory suggests that the US has not seen any 'natural' weather since the late 1970's -because the Soviets have been manipulating our weather via some exotic energy device. According to the source the Soviets/Russians used this technology to down the Space Shuttle Challenger too.

I love conspiracies but this one is just a bit too far out there for me.

[Orpheus]

Where's my tinfoil hat.

 

Seriously though, keep these links coming. Great thread.

[Kain rising]

Interesting.

I just recently read a theory that flight 800 was the victim of a Russian energy weapon. It seemed nuts to me but this same theory suggests that the US has not seen any 'natural' weather since the late 1970's -because the Soviets have been manipulating our weather via some exotic energy device. According to the source the Soviets/Russians used this technology to down the Space Shuttle Challenger too.

I love conspiracies but this one is just a bit too far out there for me.

 

I think I just read something along those lines not to long ago - if you want a lot of weird maybe-science' date=' do a search on Nikola Tesla, Directed Energy Weapons and/or Scalar Weapons (which I believe were the weapons the Russians supposedly used). Very fascinating stuff, even if you don't believe any of it. For another example, the Tunguska explosion, thought to have been caused by an meteor or comet, was supposedly caused by Tesla testing a Directed Energy weapon or wireless energy power distribution device. It makes for an interesting read.

[Robot Monkey]

Out of curiosity, are you folks talking about this stuff from the perspective of being entertained or do you really believe them?

[secretvampire]

I think that all 9/11-related conspiracy theories are absolute horseshit. On the other hand, I will totally buy into something "not on the up-and-up" happening with that TWA flight. People knew from the beginning that it just didn't feel right and the explanations that were provided based on witness accounts and such just don't match up.

 

EDIT: A Russian energy weapon hahaha...that one is just too funny. I'll accept the "US military screwup" scenario though. They would never be able to admit to something like that unless they were absolutely caught red-handed.

[Derrik Draven]

There is alot of conspiracy theories, and books, based around the Haarp Project.

 

It's up in Alaska on some government secured site. Supposedly, this thing can, in fact, manipulate the weather....somehow...I guess.

 

Just do a search on "haarp project". Lots of stuff there.

[Cyberwoo]

Out of curiosity, are you folks talking about this stuff from the perspective of being entertained or do you really believe them?

 

 

Thats exactlly what I want to know.

[JoeyN]

Depends on the theory. The Flight 800 thing is a no brainer. Other stuff like the Pentagon and this weather control thing is another story

[GreenMonkey]

I'll believe anything with some good hard facts and logic behind it. But I'm only really convinced of stuff like gravity and relativity.

 

I am fascinated by the idea though, and I have an inherent distrust of governments - any governments. While I totally believe that the government quite likely has some coverups going on, and parts of it that are running under such high security no one knows, etc etc...

 

But -

you're not going to convince me aliens have been abducting people, that no airplane actually crashed into the Pentagon, etc without some good hard evidence. I find the attempts fascinating, and fully support the 'the Truth is out there' type folks. That's why I liked the X-files. Go Mulder! Just as long as they aren't actually DOING anything crazy, just poking around for facts and evidence.

[Camp]

IMO, the mother of all conspiracies involves the illegal movement of Nazi scientists into the US at the end of WW2 and what they may have helped the military produce in the 'black'.

If you're even remotely interested in the kind of stuff that may exist at the fabled Area 51 (not alien crap either) I suggest you read: The Hunt For Zero Point by Nick Cook. He's a respected avaition journalist for Janes and the book is very, very cool. Even if it's all BS it's still an entertaining read.

[Kain rising]

Out of curiosity, are you folks talking about this stuff from the perspective of being entertained or do you really believe them?

 

I mostly look at it for the entertainment or 'what if' value. I certainly think there's a lot of spooky/shady stuff going on/gone on that we don't know about though.

[Derrik Draven]

As some have said, with decent facts and lots of "circumstantial" evidence, I can believe this stuff. But ya gotta give me something to go on; not just way out in left field stuff.

 

To be honest, I really wonder about alien reports, ufo's...all that shit. I'm at the point where it seems to me to be more of a stretch of the imagination to believe that we're the only things in the vaaaaaaaast universe. Seems downright stupid to think that. Just doesn't seem probable.

 

Here's something a couple of us at work were discussing. Tell me what you guys think:

 

Man has NOT descended from apes. Man is a genetic experiement between apes and a small bodied, mostly hairless, upright walking, intelligent, alien race. They were speculating that big, hairy, kinda dumb, hunched over walking, primative apes crossed with something like the above, would give you....us!

 

Strong, but not like an ape, somewhere between hairy and hairless, upright walking, but not a dainty little gait, reasonably intelligent, aggressive but wanting peace, ect.

 

The vast majority of drawn pictures, from many different nations and peoples, all show damn near the exact representation of the aliens that these abducted people supposedly have seen: small, hairless, humanoid, big eyes, big head, kinda pale.

 

Also added to the arguement was that that's why there has been no "missing link" found. There is none. Right from apes to us, thanks to our alien progenators.

 

We're their experiment. That's why they come and abduct people from time to time; to check out how their creation is doing. That's why there are drawings in Aztec temples of beings coming out of ufo's, the statues on Easter Island, the lines and drawings in the desert that can only be seen from the air, all from our ancient past...glorifying our creators from the sky.

 

Perhaps in the distant past, when man was relatively primative/harmless, these alien "forefathers" visited the earth many many times. Checking us out. Some ancient races might have even worshipped them.

 

Then, as time went on and we grew in numbers, and our intelligence increased, and we developed weapons of war, maybe it got to be too difficult/dangerous for our ancient forefathers to visit?

 

Sooooo...that's why "they" stealthily visit earth now.

 

There have been many, many, reports of alien/ufo sightings that are just total bullshit. But, some are by very responsible, very believeable, "normal" everyday citizens. Some supposedly are witnessed by lots of people at one time. Makes ya wonder...

 

Personally, being on the more religious side of things, I ahh....don't exactly subscribe to this belief BUT, I gotta admit, some of it sounds somewhat believeable.

[JFo]

Personally, being on the more religious side of things, I ahh....don't exactly subscribe to this belief BUT, I gotta admit, some of it sounds somewhat believeable.

 

Or at the very least, makes for some interesting sci-fi possibilities.

[Camp]

Derrik,

 

Look for a guy named Erich von D?niken. He has written several books about a theory very similar to what you and your co-workers have been discussing. He has garnered quite a following over the years.

 

Personally, I find Von D?niken to be more harmful than good. He speaks as if he's a scientist, he talks about his detailed research and his use of scientific method. The reality is that he & his followers ignore facts and findings at their convience. He is so blinded by his belief that alternate answers cannot be possible. For example, there are many theories about how the Egyptians managed to move the 50 ton blocks used in the construction of the pyramids without modern technology. It's true we don't know for sure exactly how they did it but several theories have been shown that they could have worked. Von D?niken simply ignores these scenarios as if the research doesn't exist. The only answer he can accept is that aliens (our supposed forefathers) assisted in the construction.

 

His stuff can be entertaining but is so full of holes and conjecture that I can't take it for too long.

[dogbert]

Look for a guy named Erich von D?niken.

 

And just to be clear, he's a big giant crank with a definite attitude of "all facts must be twisted to meet his initial conjecture" like a lot of so-called experts on these things.

 

A lot of his ideas & evidence have been utterly proven to be false.

[Derrik Draven]

I'll have to check that out.

 

Personally, I hope that's not how we humans, got here!