Dvorak Dooms the Game Industry

[Camp]

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1784975,00.asp

 

Thought this might incite discussion.

[dogbert]

"Everything's the same". Yawn.

[Josh]

I love this discussion. Here's where Dvorak calls himself out, though:

 

I'm not the only one who thinks there's a problem. When Nintendo president Satoru Iwata spoke at this year's Game Developers Conference in San Francisco, he discussed the lack of new game ideas. He saw the same things that I see: There are four or five simple game categories and nothing really new or different.

 

I don't want to incite any Nintendo discussions here, but I really don't consider Nintendo the best source on what's new and hot in game ideas.

 

But that's not what's really important to this discussion. Dvorak claims that there are just shooters, puzzles and mazes, adventure games, sports games, and simulations. He got that list from some other list, no doubt. Those of us in the know can already see the holes in that taxonomy - where are the RPGs, the MMOGs, the RTS and straight strategy, survival horror, etc.? That list reeks of someone who doesn't play games.

 

Meanwhile, he goes and calls out one of my favorite movies, Starship Troopers, for being a "video game turned into a movie." Wow. I guess he doesn't have an eye for brilliantly-written political satire.

 

Then, THEN he goes on to say that the doom of the next generation will come from newcomers being "repulsed" by the photorealism of the new machines. That's like saying people who are recently in the market for new Lamborghinis may be put-off by how fast the new ones are. Give me a fucking break.

 

This guy is simply reciting Nintendo's line, and we see how well they've done in terms of success. Sony and Microsoft sure look like they're on a downhill ride. :lmfao

[Romier S]

He presents some good arguments (though nothing new) but falls into the rather simplistic mindset of dismissing any level of originality/change in gaming today by placing it strictly into a genre category. It's akin to saying: "You know ICO has some great art design and some rather inventive puzzles, but its just an adventure game." Or: "Hey Half-Life 2 has some of the most varied and fun gameplay out there, but who cares? it's just a shooter anway." I suppose if you were to let this particular writer play Katamari Damacy, he would tell you it's an adventure game with puzzle aspects. :

 

His core argument is sound. The industry is definitely in the thrall of sequelitis, with original ideas and properties now taking a back seat to more "financially sound product" as the analysts like to call it. It's not as though anyone that's part of this hobby didn't know that already. The unique type of games are definitely the exception rather than the norm, but they do very well exist and there are plenty of entertaining and "different" games out there to play for anyone willing to give them a look. If the industry does fall into obscurity as it did in the pre-Nintendo era, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

 

Oh and:

 

Some of today's games are ridiculously hard to play—unless gaming is your so-called life—and so daunting to casual players that they will quickly reject them.

 

:barf Give me a break.

[Chris F]

Didn't this guy say a long time ago that noone would embrace the mouse as an input device?

[Ryan FB]

No offense, but Dvorak is pretty much a troll. He's managed to make a living in the publishing industry by being consistently wrong.

[Romier S]

No offense, but Dvorak is pretty much a troll. He's managed to make a living in the publishing industry by being consistently wrong.

This article should put another notch on his "wrong" belt then.

[foogledricks]

I agree with some of his sentiments. Games are much harder to get into nowadays. Complex.

3D was a huge boon for the industry, as it added so many unfamiliar gameplay and graphic opportunities. The industry has exploded since then. What will be the next paradigm shift? Do we really need one? The movie industry is kicking ass with DVD sales... they haven't had a huge shift. Are they doomed?

I think there is validity in his thesis. He just doesn't have many good points.

[iainl]

Some of today's games are ridiculously hard to play?unless gaming is your so-called life?and so daunting to casual players that they will quickly reject them.

 

Yes, but does he have anything to add that isn't a rewrite of Iwata's speech?

 

There are only seven stories in the world, like they say.

 

In fact, in films there's usually only one. Our Hero/Heroine needs something, but it isn't going to be easy to get.

[Camp]

I also agree with some of his general sentiments but the article is obviously written by a man who doesn't understand the nuance of the art form he's writing about. His surface examination doesn't allow him to see why a game like Half-Life 2 is so fantastic. Yes, it's a shooter but it expands upon the accomplishments of all previous shooters in such a way that a top-level cursory glance would never reveal.

 

I do think there are examples of games that are guilty of stagnation in their particular genre. I'll pick on Tekken 5 for a moment. Here's an industry leader in the fighting genre that really brings nothing to the table. If you're going to set out to make a 'AAA' game it really ought to deliver something new to the establishment. With Tekken 5 Namco just refined an existing game. Where is the next level? Where is there any innovation in this game?

 

Gran Tourismo 4 is in the same boat. It's a refined version of the previous GT games. Is it improved? Sure, but it's more of a GT 3.1 than a game worthy of a full new title. Yet people continue to buy into this repetitive dreck so why should Polyphony or Namco take a risk by innovating their refined yet 'been-there-done-that' gameplay?

[dogbert]

It's a cliche, but innovation != (good && fun). I'm all for developers pushing the envelope & trying new things, but let's be clear that it doesn't automatically make a game more fun just because it tries something new.

[Angry the Clown]

Blast! There I was thinking this was going to be a thread about the influence of classical music on gaming.

 

It's not as though anyone that's part of this hobby didn't know that already. The unique type of games are definitely the exception rather than the norm, but they do very well exist and there are plenty of entertaining and "different" games out there to play for anyone willing to give them a look. If the industry does fall into obscurity as it did in the pre-Nintendo era, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

 

Agreed. The good innovative stuff is out there, it?s just under promoted and thus under purchased. Of course, like movies, just how many consumers are there out there who are quite happy to accept the same regurgitated material over and over and make no fuss? The unfortunate reality is many I feel. As far as multi-media today goes many are becoming very narrow minded with what they are willing to accept, leaving content providers little choice but to pander to such desires if they are to survive in business.

 

Daniel

[Camp]

I'm all for developers pushing the envelope & trying new things, but let's be clear that it doesn't automatically make a game more fun just because it tries something new.

 

Not only that but, to some extent, the industry needs run-of-the-mill, status-quo games like Tekken 5 & GT4. There's nothing inherenly wrong with a game just because it fails to push existing envelopes. Hell, the entire commercial music industry is a great example of a group of "artists" failing to even consider being in the same vicinity of an envelope -much less trying to push one. Consumers continue to eat that mass marketed junk up -so it's making someone happy.

[foogledricks]

It's a cliche, but innovation != (good && fun). I'm all for developers pushing the envelope & trying new things, but let's be clear that it doesn't automatically make a game more fun just because it tries something new.

Dogbert, I'd like to take this time out to say something with passion but slight hesitation. I couldn't agree with you more! A friend of mine criticized a movie a while back, saying that it was so unoriginal. Forgive me, I don't even remember the movie we were discussing. But I loved the movie, whatever it was. Unoriginal doesn't mean it's not executed well. There are so many poorly executed movies and games that I'm just happy for the occasional product of quality.

 

On top of that though, is the following: Just because you've experienced something ten thousand times, doesn't mean I have. Maybe I don't see every friggin action movie that comes out, buy every iteration of Madden football, or listen to every Britney Spears album.

 

That being said: I've grew sick of the stale single player FPS games six years ago (Half-Life, Halo were exceptions). Tomb Raider grew stale after part I. I always buy fighting games, but I never like them anymore (This new EA Marvel game sounds interesting). Resident Evil was well-done but tired (Thank God they innovated there).

 

So I'm not adverse to change. I love change. But it doesn't have to be revolutionary. A need for revolution implies that the games of today are perfectly executed. They are not. There is still lots of room for improvement, without doing something drastically new.

[AlbertA]

Blast! There I was thinking this was going to be a thread about the influence of classical music on gaming.

 

I was also thinking "What the hell? Why would Dvorak doom the game industry"

[Romier S]

It's a cliche, but innovation != (good && fun). I'm all for developers pushing the envelope & trying new things, but let's be clear that it doesn't automatically make a game more fun just because it tries something new.

Bingo. The Tekken 5 example was a great one, Camp. Mainly because Namco did try to "innovate" as it were with Tekken 4 and make some rather harsh changes to the established nature of the series. It was a failure in many regards and made the game less enjoyable (much like Virtua Fighter 3 which any VF fan will attest to). Tekken 5 is, in comparison, a better and more fun game to play.

[iainl]

Why would Dvorak doom the game industry"

 

Well, if you can't remap your movement keys from WASD then with Dvorak you're fucked, frankly.

[Dimness]

Meh

[GreenMonkey]

And there's only 6 different stories humankind can write, too, right? Isn't that how the line goes?

[Camp]

Well, if you can't remap your movement keys from WASD then with Dvorak you're fucked, frankly.

 

[General Zot]

Well, by this arguement there are only 6 or so sports in the entire world:

 

* Running

* Swimming

* Kicking/Punching/Throwing Something

* Using a Machine or Object in Sport

* Grappling/Fighting

* and of course p0rn

 

Doesn't make sports boring by a long shot.

[Josh]

Well' date=' by this arguement there are only 6 or so sports in the entire world:

 

* Running

* Swimming

* Kicking/Punching/Throwing Something

* Using a Machine or Object in Sport

* Grappling/Fighting

* and of course p0rn

 

Doesn't make sports boring by a long shot.[/quote']

 

Exactly. The taxonomy he uses reeks of ignorance and therefore makes the whole thing irrelevant.

[MastaRedSnappa]

This guy has "old fogey" written all over him.

 

We are already getting pre-hype for the PlayStation 3 and the Xbox 2, as well as the new Nintendo. All this will do is make the visuals more lifelike and the blood and gore more realistic and nauseating. While the kids who are used to this "progress" may not be put off by it, newcomers may be repulsed and skip these new generations of machines altogether.

 

"Why in my day, we didn't have no photorealistic graphics. We didn't even have color! We had two lines and a dot! And we liked it!

 

Some of today's games are ridiculously hard to play?unless gaming is your so-called life?and so daunting to casual players that they will quickly reject them.

 

"Why in my day, we didn't have analog controllers with their fancy vibration and 28 buttons! We had a joystick that moved in four directions and one button! And we liked it!"

 

I'm not the only one who thinks there's a problem. When Nintendo president Satoru Iwata spoke at this year's Game Developers Conference in San Francisco, he discussed the lack of new game ideas. He saw the same things that I see: There are four or five simple game categories and nothing really new or different.

 

Iwata then showed us a couple of supposedly new (but in fact, rather old) ideas? two concept games that will be released later this year for the incredibly popular Nintendo DS handheld game machine.

 

Note to Dvorak: it's probably not a good idea to use the Nintendo president's comments to back up your argument that the gaming industry is doomed because there are no more original game ideas then proceed to show that his game ideas are unoriginal as well. It's like discrediting your own witness in the courtroom.

 

The purpose of entertainment is to entertain, not necessarily to be original. There is no doubt that the financial side of the entertainment industry (including gaming, movies, TV, etc.) produces a lot of sequel-itis and copy cats of hits. But that doesn't mean that the sequels/copy cats can't be entertaining or that there are no original ideas out there. There's more of everything now-- movies/DVDs, TV channels, PC/video games and consoles (and access to old stuff as well). It's only natural that it's harder to find originality as the number of things you have to dig through increases exponentially.

[iainl]

* Kicking/Punching/Throwing Something

 

All ball games are really Table Tennis.

 

Table Tennis is, well, Table Tennis.

Tennis is Table Tennis standing on a bigger table.

Squash is Table Tennis against a wall.

Badminton is Table Tennis with a funny-shaped ball.

Football is Table Tennis with your feet, and more people.

Rugby is Table Tennis with your hands and more people.

American Football is the same with lots of waiting around.

Golf is Table Tennis with a really, really big table and a ball each.

 

and so on. You're always just trying to get a ball somewhere while the opposition try to get the ball where they want instead.

[Covak]

I'm beginning to think every post in this thread is the same