What's up with all the Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo hating?

[MastaRedSnappa]

After reading the Xbox 360/PS3/Revolution threads, I was kind of shocked by the tone of the discussions. The announcement of the next generation of consoles seems to have increased the amount of Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo hating here to IGN-like levels.

 

My question is-- why? Aren't most of us here owners of multiple consoles? If that's the case, I don't understand where the hate's coming from. The current generation consoles each have their strengths and weaknesses, must-have titles and not-so-must-have titles. I can't imagine that's going to change in the next generation. Yet, in the above-mentioned threads, half the posts are thinly-veiled digs at Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo.

 

I know it's cliched but I only care about the games. I don't care about SPEs, cores, or pipelines. I don't care if it's concave or convex. I dont' care if it's white, silver, black, or mauve. I only care about the games. Am I the only one?

[secretvampire]

You are most definitely not the only one, I really get tired of it too. Though it's nowhere NEAR as bad as some of the other boards I read, it does happen here (albeit a lot more civilly). I am only interested in the games, and if a console has games I'm interested in playing, I'll buy it.

[General Zot]

I think it's loving a console or company, not hating another one.

 

Someone loves their PS2 and Sony to death, that's cool. They love the Killzone 2 demo, also cool. Someone else posts that the demo really doesn't show anything about the game or PS3 hardware. They respond by attacking MS and the 360, which someone else just loves to death. Boom, an arguement. The facts don't matter, that they both will own all the consoles doesn't matter, it's an emotional response from there on out.

 

It's just like everything else these days. You'd think there was a line of trenches dug around our state lines with Democrats on one side and Republicans on the other. The truth is 90% of us are standing around in the middle while the 5% zealots on each side go crazy. But just because I might be pro-choice doesn't make me anti-Christian, or someone else a Facist for not liking social security.

 

What can you do? Just live your life I guess...

[Romier S]

I know it's cliched but I only care about the games. I don't care about SPEs, cores, or pipelines. I don't care if it's concave or convex. I dont' care if it's white, silver, black, or mauve. I only care about the games. Am I the only one?

Agreed 100% and lord knows I've posted in a few of those hardware threads to move the tone of the discussion to where the actual hardware is being talked about and not whats real time/pre-rendered and who has the biggest amount of marketing hype. I personally have no issue with discussing the pros and cons of the new systems designs. We do have quite a few hardware lovers that enjoy seeing a good looking console. Same goes for specs which if you look in the PS3 thread, Ed along with a few other members had a very good discussion on how the Cell works compared to other CPU's out there. I love reading that kind of thing.

 

The "dark" side of the hardware discussions is honestly my least favorite discussion to partake in. Mostly because it always comes down to totally useless circular arguments that for any true gamer should matter very little. Hardware loyalty is quite funny because it changes on such a regular basis. Sony's PS3 could trump the X360 in both looks and online service if Sony decideds to so something similiar to Xbox Live. It could be the other way around or Nintendo could come out with the end all be all of systems for gamers and online players. Four years from now folks will be arguing the same things from the perspective of the system they like at the moment and it will be as inconsequential as it is now.

 

I do want to say that I heartily disagree with anything here reaching IGN levels of discussion though. Most everyone has been respectful and civil about presenting thier arguments which is exactly what we want of our membership (even if the perspectives can be a bit skewed at times ).

 

The facts don't matter

Oh I think the facts do matter. They matter because a great deal of times these arguments stem from a lack of real facts being presented on one or both sides. That along with an EXTREME amount of (ass)umptions being made on a variety of topics is what leads to the type of emotional responses you touched upon Joe.

[merlot]

The discussions haven't even come CLOSE to IGN fanboyish levels. Sure, we all have our bias towards one or two consoles, but I haven't read anyone dissing another console.

 

I think the worst things got was between Camp and I (and that was actually about current hardware), and we cleaned the slate through PM, so all is well. :tu

 

Sure, games are the focus for most, but I like the reading about the horsepower that makes it happen. It never ceases to amaze me how powerful the consoles become with each generation.

[rustyjaw]

My question is-- why? Aren't most of us here owners of multiple consoles? If that's the case, I don't understand where the hate's coming from.

 

It's probably not really hate. Speaking for myself, since I'm one of the more vocal people in those threads (I think). I don't think hate is the right word even for people whose views conflict with mine. There may be some bias, some preference of one over the other, but probably not hate. My aim in those threads is to counter or correct assertions that I think are either logically or factually flawed, based on the facts as we know them...which may change in the future.

 

I don't think anyone here descended into ad hominem attacks, which is where the line should be drawn.

 

I know it's cliched but I only care about the games. I don't care about SPEs, cores, or pipelines. I don't care if it's concave or convex. I dont' care if it's white, silver, black, or mauve. I only care about the games. Am I the only one?

 

I care about all of those things, including the games. But let's face it, right now we are thin on games, there isn't even a single final screenshot or video available, meanwhile we are long on hardware, specs are out and final.

 

What's wrong with calling Sony out on their curved-top design that will only fit on the top of a stack of components? I agree that it looks nice, but design isn't just about looks, it's about function as well.

 

And I also see no need to hold back from chastising MS for not dealing with backward compatibility more effectively. The whole fiasco is a case-study in poor corporate communication. Not to mention poor planning from the inception of the original Xbox.

 

I think vigorous and considered argumentation is good.

[foogledricks]

All theaz conzoles suck. Don't even hav uh mouse and keybord, PC is where its at. For grafix and sound and kuntrol and evarything. Ya'll waisting yur breadth. So teh bias.

[foogledricks]

There is a spike of emotion, debate, and raw enthusiasm around E3, particularly prior to the launch of new consoles. I saw people posting intensely who I've never seen post before. The next generation pulls people out of the woodwork.

 

Anyway, we're only human. The E3 emotions only lasted a couple of days. I do not think there is a problem. This country is not going to hell. And neither is this forum.

[JoeyN]

I may be a fan of the Xbox, but on my end I dont hate Sony and the Playstation consoles, If I did i wouldnt own a PSP and play it more then my xbox recently. I was just dissapointed at how they handled the PS2. So if i came off as a hater, then Im sorry. I just want Sony to show real PS3 stuff with blow them away graphics instead of vidoes which arent game clips. Not the way they did with the PS2 emotion engine stuff, and then the Kill Zone 1 demo video. There launch is still far away and im looking forward to seeing there stuff. I would also like them get a online network going which was talked about before PS2 came out. Thats all

 

capt

[Romier S]

So if i came off as a hater, then Im sorry.

You didn't Joey, and I doubt this thread was created because of you.

 

I just want Sony to show real PS3 stuff with blow them away graphics instead of vidoes which arent game clips.

That's where the "facts matter" statement I mentioned comes from Joey. Sony did indeed show real time footage on several of thier demos (Unreal, Fight Night 3, I-8). Some of which were running strictly off of the GPU with little of the Cell processor being taken advantage of. People don't want to hear that though. It's more fun to find what's not real that what is after all.

 

It goes without saying that we all want to see real world games in motion with all of these next generation systems. My problem with some of these discussions over the past week is the elevated level of standards that "X" company needs to meet to be taken seriously where as "Y" company is allowed all of the leeway in the world.(and this isn't directed at you Joey, just in general)

 

I need to get this off of my chest and I feel it's relevant to the discussion:

 

Fact: Sony has no obligation to show real time games on a system that is almost a year and a half away from launching! Sony presented thier hardware. They gave thier list of specifications (with the typical and expected hype). Presented some nice tech demonstrations as well as some footage of where they would like to see thier games go. All with the intention of hyping up thier userbase (as any company out there wants to do).

 

Fact: Microsoft followed the same path. They showed the hardware. They showed the specs (with that lovely dash of hype mentioned ealier). They key differences? They chose to do a week earlier on MTV (which took alot of suprise and wonder out of thier presentation IMO) and they showed games that were farther along, and were already deep into thier development cycle. Wow, makes sense doesn't it? Considering the X360 is the only company releasing thier console this year.

 

Fact: Nintendo showed the Revolution. Even at the prototype stage, the consoles presence showed a great step forward for Nintendo. They could have done more. They needed to show the controller IMO, and they certainly needed to head into more Sony/MS territory with some demonstrations of where they plan to go with the system technologically. However, E3 was a good beginning for Nintendo.

 

Anyway, we're only human. The E3 emotions only lasted a couple of days. I do not think there is a problem.

You're human Keith? My god! :thud

[GreenMonkey]

I hate Microsoft, but I'm pretty fond of their console.

 

Nintendo was the evil gaming empire but I think they have been humbled a bit

 

Sony is the arrogant, cocky company on top right now, and I'd like to see them take a bit of fall like Nintendo/Microsoft.

 

It's amazing that Nintendo stays in business, competing with 2 companies that have boatloads of money and can funnel resources and $ from their other branches. It's no wonder Sega is out of the game.

 

 

Personally I don't like that it looks like the PS3 will be big $ ($500ish speculated ?!).

 

I don't like that Microsoft never gives a damn for the Japanese market (virtually no RPGs :bh ).

 

And I don't like that Nintendo "isn't catering to HDTV owners", and may have an underpowered console :bh

 

So I hate all of them equally :rock

 

No, seriously, my skepticism on the systems is all about the games. Until proven otherwise I'm sure the hardware will be similiar enough that the GFX difference isn't much. And the sniping/fanboyism here is much less than even at Cheapassgamer (and they are much better/make fun of GameFAQs/IGN).

[General Zot]

Awesome, so you're buying all three as well? Welcome aboard the good ship "G@m3r H0r"...

[JoeyN]

Awesome, so you're buying all three as well?

 

In the end who isnt?

 

Unreal, Fight Night 3, I-8

 

Very True. The Fight Night one was very cool.

 

capt

[Romier S]

Awesome, so you're buying all three as well?

I think we're just going to set that along the top of the forum right under the LCVG. Just so everyone gets our stance on the next generation of game consoles.

[MastaRedSnappa]

Let me just clarify a few things:

 

1) When I used the term "hating", I was not referring to hate as in hate crimes or personal attacks. I was using it as slang for putting down, like dissing.

 

2) Joey, it was not directed at you (or anyone specificially) and even if it was, I don't think there's anything to apologize for.

 

The reason I started the thread was that I was under the impression that a very high percentage of LCVGers were multi-console owners. As a multi-console owner, I can't imagine being biased against one of the consoles I owned. Why would I buy it if I was biased against it or had something against the company that made it? I'm just trying to understand where the "hate" is coming from.

[JoeyN]

2) Joey, it was not directed at you (or anyone specificially) and even if it was, I don't think there's anything to apologize for.

 

I know it wasnt, but i still apologized anyway. Everyone knows im a big fan of xbox live and i know sometimes my comments come off as fanboyish when in reality Im not. Just because Id rather play WWE Day of Reckoning on the Cube and not Raw vs Smackdown on PS2 dosnt mean a thing

[dogbert]

Personally I don't like that it looks like the PS3 will be big $ ($500ish speculated ?!).

 

Don't believe the hype. Sony have said they're planning a Japanese launch price similiar to the PS2 which was around $360.

 

A $500 price would be commercial suicide & just plain won't happen. They'll absorb the difference. Same with Microsoft.

[rustyjaw]

As a multi-console owner, I can't imagine being biased against one of the consoles I owned. Why would I buy it if I was biased against it or had something against the company that made it?

 

Oh, I think even us multi-console owners have our biases. I think it would be much less likely that we would like each console exactly the same amount, or that the feelings toward the platforms were uniformly positive.

 

I am biased against the Xbox:

Because of the stupid Thompson drives.

Because Microsoft makes it, a company found guilty in more than one court of criminally abusing its monopoly.

 

I am biased against the PS2:

Because nearly every cross-platform game looks worse on it compared to the Xbox and GC.

The controller lacks analog triggers, analog buttons are no replacement.

 

I am biased against the GameCube:

Because in the last 6-8 months, game releases have dwindled to a trickle...with very little I'm interested in.

Non-existent online support.

 

Of course, those are just the negative points, there are also many positive ones too.

[Romier S]

We should all do a list like Ed's. Would be interesting just to get our biases out there though I've no doubt we'd share many of the same ones.

[JoeyN]

Xbox Complaints

1-The Thompson Drive problem hit me as well

2-Lots of MMO Speculation and then none came out

3-The buying of Rare meant nothing to first gen xbox

 

PS2 Complaints

1-No full Online Play system even though they said there would be

2-All those pre launch tech demos of the emotion engine and then nothing that blew me away graphically in the first year or so, and even now they are only finally getting the best out of the system

3-Whenever the same game is on both systems the Xbox one looks better and plays better with more features

 

Gamecube Complaints

1- One big game every 5 months isnt a way to keep a system going

2- Sell a Broadband adapter and then only two games can use it

3-There dropping of the component cable support after the system has been out for years

[AnthonyVolpe]

All theaz conzoles suck. Don't even hav uh mouse and keybord, PC is where its at. For grafix and sound and kuntrol and evarything. Ya'll waisting yur breadth. So teh bias.

 

You misspelled t3h

 

I know it's cliched but I only care about the games. I don't care about SPEs, cores, or pipelines. I don't care if it's concave or convex. I dont' care if it's white, silver, black, or mauve. I only care about the games. Am I the only one?

 

No. There's no sense in owning a Bentley if all the roads in your area are made out of rocks, and there's no sense in owning an incredible gaming box if the games are lousy. You're not the only one. Not by a long shot.

[Josh]

No. There's no sense in owning a Bentley if all the roads in your area are made out of rocks, and there's no sense in owning an incredible gaming box if the games are lousy. You're not[/b'] the only one. Not by a long shot.

 

True, but there's also no sense in owning a Bentley if you don't know Jack about the mechanics or why it's worth so much. Hence the reason a lot of us like to geek out on the specs, argue and compare their relative merits, and just have a bit of fun with it.

 

As for the bias:

 

Xbox:

1) So annoyed by the asshats on Live that I don't get on anymore. Not MS's fault, but the shooter and racing games sure attract some douchebags.

2) No classic-style RPGs of interest.

3) The console design. Embarrassingly ugly.

 

PS2:

1) Disk read errors make me want to eat nails.

2) Lack of centralized online system.

3) Accessorizing (Ethernet adapter, HDD) when it should have come that way.

 

GameCube:

1) Dearth of games.

2) Hate the analog stick.

3) Where's Mario 128?

[GreenMonkey]

Great Idea. My Biases: (some copy and pasted from above)

 

I am biased against the Xbox:

1| Because Microsoft makes it, a company found guilty in more than one court of criminally abusing its monopoly. [ :tu The only evil empire I dislike this much is Walmart.]

2| No classic-style RPGs of interest. :tu

3| It seems like too many racing games and FPS. For god's sake, sooo many FPS games, and virtually no strategy/RPG type games. I feel like the game selection caters to typical blow-shit-up watching early 20s dudes. Some intelligent games, please!

 

I am biased against the PS2:

1| Because nearly every cross-platform game looks worse on it compared to the Xbox and GC. :tu

2| My first one basically died to the disc error problem (thx EBgames for the slim PS2 trade-in deal!). Along with the PS1 failure rates I don't have a lot of faith in their hardware.

3| Lack of 480p support and PS1-over-component support - yes, that's right, you can't play PS1 games over component cables. :wtf :bh EDIT: Looks that was just PS1. My Bad. Wow. Have to find some cheap ass component cables!

4| (Stolen from Futurevoid below) Dislike the "looseness" of the analog sticks on the Dual Shock 2 - [YES! They suck hard for FPS games or anything with precise aim needed]

5| (Stolen from Masta Red Snappa below) Only two controller ports built-in

- [i forgot about this. I was complaining about this for ages. $ making tactic or cheapy tactic IMO]

 

I am biased against the GameCube:

1| Because in the last 6-8 months, game releases have dwindled to a trickle...with very little I'm interested in. [ :tu ! Most recent game I've bought was Megaman Collection & Warioware. I've spent more money on Wavebirds than games this year]

2| Ditto with the Xbox problem, not enough RPGs

3| And it never gets cross-platform releases, many Xbox/PS2 games not released for it.

[Romier S]

I'll list mine for the hell of it:

 

I am biased again the Xbox because:

-Complete lack of a real MMO on Live

-I very much dislike the placement of the black and white buttons on the S pad

-Abundance of FPS and racers. Really would like to see a more well rounded library in general

 

I am biased against the PS2 because:

-helped to kill my beloved Dreamcast (yes I'm still bitter! )

-Dislike the "looseness" of the analog sticks on the Dual Shock 2

-A mess of an online plan that lacks centralization and useability

 

I am biased against the Gamecube because:

-Lack of consistent game releases/lack of third party support

-Utterly hate the D-pad on the controller (and I'll add crappy little mem cards to this one too, at least initially)

-Online what?

 

 

You can't play PS1 games over component cables from the PS2. A lot of my PS2 time is spent with PS1 RPGs. LAME LAME LAME

Hmm, you want to explain that one a little further? I spend alot of time playing PS1 games on my PS2 via component with not trouble whatsoever.

[MastaRedSnappa]

My biases:

 

Xbox:

- Ludicrously large launch controller made for a race of 7-foot giants (later rectified by the S)

- Small, hard to reach, buttons (Black and White) limited their usefulness and consequently, cross-platform games ported from the PS2 that used all of the PS2's buttons like SSX and NBA Street were somewhat gimped on the Xbox (this seems to be rectified on the 360 controller)

- Required optional DVD kit to play DVDs

- Little support by Japanese game developers

 

PS2:

- The new, slim PS2 is what Sony should have had at launch

- Cross-platform games generally look the worst on the PS2

- Virtually no 16:9, 5.1 audio, HDTV support

- Overpriced, storage-challenged memory cards

- Only two controller ports built-in

 

Gamecube:

- Basically no online support

- No DVD playback

- Virtually no 16:9, 5.1 audio, HDTV support

- Overpriced, storage-challenged memory cards

- Little support by 3rd party developers

 

They have all provided me with hours of entertainment and I don't regret buying any of them. :tu