Robot Monkey Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Is it safe to say that the PS2 and Gameboy Advance has made backward's compatibility an important feature for the market? Or is it still a "nice" feature and not a must have? -j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark E Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 With all due respect, I think the PS2 needed backwards compatability because with the very notable exception of SSX the first round of software for the console smelled like seven shades of ass. Then when people point out your console's flaws you can (as the company) just cough and go, 'Well, play a PSOne title then.' I don't think it's a feature that is necessary, no, but I think that it has become one in the latest round of consoles because people want to take it with them, as it were. I mean, it does open up a wider range of software for the "new" system even if it's old titles. Don't get me wrong, I'm not crapping on the idea, I think being able to play your old titles on the next-gen of systems is great and it keeps those libraries in circulation longer than you would expect. But I also don't think it's necessary honestly. I'm not giving away my PSOne or my Cube, why would I? If you wanted to play the games badly enough, you'd have the system to play them on. I'm hardly going to downgrade a system just because it won't play the games its predecessor used to. That'd be like tossing out your DVD player because it won't play old VHS tapes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camp Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 With all due respect, I think the PS2 needed backwards compatability because with the very notable exception of SSX the first round of software for the console smelled like seven shades of ass. Agreed. Well said. If you can't get your development kits for a new console out on time you need backward compatibility. This topic might make a better poll than a regular thread. Personally, I think backward compatibility is "nice" but not necessary. After all, I already have the older console. -but that's me...I know from experience that backward compatibility is a MAJOR purchasing factor for mom's & dad's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustyjaw Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 I live in a very small place and I really don't have room for more consoles, so backward compatibility is important to me. The less clutter, the better. Also, I only have so many inputs on my projector, and power outlets (even with power-strips). I wouldn't refuse a new console just because it won't play the previous revs games, but I would consider it lazy and I'd have to deal with more hassles as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robot Monkey Posted September 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 I know from experience that backward compatibility is a MAJOR purchasing factor for mom's & dad's. That's what I was wondering about, Camp. Could it be an important feature for the market (not you multiconsole maniacs )? -j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camp Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 Yea, it's a huge factor to non-gamers (who account for the vast bulk of video game sales). These people are not interested in technical merits so very simple statistics mean a lot. One of those simple facts is the quantity of titles available for the system. When they hear that PS2 can play thousands of games while Xbox & Gamecube have a couple hundred they see a major advantage. They have no comprehension of the quality of these titles...they only know that a massive library means options and options are good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbert Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 they only know that a massive library means options and options are good. Heh, I've argued a similiar point before - that having a massive library of titles is a /good thing/ from a business point of view (as long as they're not ALL average!) as it bulks up market share in shops & gives the consumer more choice on price/value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foogledricks Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 I know from experience that backward compatibility is a MAJOR purchasing factor for mom's & dad's. When they hear that PS2 can play thousands of games while Xbox & Gamecube have a couple hundred they see a major advantage. We can't really speak on behalf of the 60 million PS2 owners or 10 million XBOX owners. Is there some sort of market research that states either of the above? If not, I'd stick to our own personal opinions and reasons. With that... Does anyone here, that has a PS2, actually play PSone games on it? I can't speak to this because I only own a Gamecube and XBOX. I personally would not be playing my fuzzy/choppy/blurry N64 games if my Gamecube were backwards compatible. There is a another thread about replaying games - I don't replay games anymore. There are just too many games comiing out every couple of months for me to be replaying old games. So no, I'm not interested in backward compatibility. Halo is a great game, but I'll be playing Halo 3 on XBOX 2! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romier S Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 Does anyone here, that has a PS2, actually play PSone games on it? A question that was resoundingly answered in this thread: Play PSOne games much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robot Monkey Posted September 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 Anecdotally, I also run into parents who tihnk backward's compatibility is a big deal. -j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbert Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 We can't really speak on behalf of the 60 million PS2 owners or 10 million XBOX owners. Is there some sort of market research that states either of the above? If not, I'd stick to our own personal opinions and reasons. With that... Well, when Camp speaks of parental buying habits etc, I trust his opinion as he's got a nice solid background working in the battlegrounds of parental purchasing (not Gamestop/EB) so has direct hands-on experience of it - more than most of us here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimness Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 I don't think that backwards compatibility is a must, but I think its a good show of faith on the part of the hardware developers that your old library isn't abandoned. I'd love for backwards compatibility, but I can see the why or why not of including it. It's not going to stop me from buying a system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foogledricks Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 But would you pay an extra $50 for that feature? What is it worth to you? Is it worth it? When Sony/MS/Nintendo are developing a console, I am sure they agonize over every little feature and hardware feature trying to get the most bang for the buck (e.g. the DVD remote for XBOX). And some things gotta give, while others take priority. What's most important? Bigger harddrive, more ram, wi-fi, wireless controllers, four controller ports, console size, dvd-rom speed, etc? I think it is important to acknowledge the tradeoffs in supporting various features as far as price. Not that I know or can measure those things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 I think that for the mainstream, backwards compatibility is a huge deal. I know it was when the PS2 came out. That's what people were talking about. That and its DVD playing capability. For us crazies, it's probably not such a big deal. We have all the current gen consoles, so if the next gen ones allow us to play our current games on them, all it does is save us a bit of space. It's a nice feature, though. The PS2's backwards compatibility allowed me to retire my very old PSX that would only play games consistently if it was upside-down. It also allowed some people I know to play some great games in the PlayStation library that they would have missed otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainl Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 Originally posted by FutureVoid@Sep 11 2003, 04:10 AM Does anyone here, that has a PS2, actually play PSone games on it? A question that was resoundingly answered in this thread: Play PSOne games much? And just to add one more voice to it, I'll point out that between WipEout 3:SE, MGS and Strider 2 I've used my PS2 more for PS1 games than PS2 ones in the last three to six months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robot Monkey Posted September 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 But would you pay an extra $50 for that feature? What is it worth to you? Personally, I 'm on the fence, but remember that we're discussing it in the context of the market, not our personal preferences. -j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camp Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 Thanks, Brian. But would you pay an extra $50 for that feature? What is it worth to you? Is it worth it? When Sony/MS/Nintendo are developing a console, I am sure they agonize over every little feature and hardware feature trying to get the most bang for the buck (e.g. the DVD remote for XBOX). And some things gotta give, while others take priority. What's most important? Bigger harddrive, more ram, wi-fi, wireless controllers, four controller ports, console size, dvd-rom speed, etc? Look at how Sony implemented backwards compatibility in the PS2. They did it in a very smart way that probably didn't push the cost of the feature to the customer (it certainly didn't cost $50). The chipset controlling PSone compatability doubles as the controller for the gamepad input. They had to have this part there so why not make it run the old games too? While few of us can speak intelligently on the costs of what goes into a new console I would be willing to bet it's not much of a stretch to say backward compatibility can be done, in many cases, for "free" -or very close to it. Will that be the case with Xbox2? I don't know as the switch from nVidia to ATI seems a daunting task in terms of backward compatibility. We can't really speak on behalf of the 60 million PS2 owners or 10 million XBOX owners. Is there some sort of market research that states either of the above? If not, I'd stick to our own personal opinions and reasons. I think the multiple thousands of mainstream game buyers I've worked with gives me fair insight and a respectable statistical base from which to draw an educated opinion. I may not be right on the money but I imagine I'm pretty close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solitice Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 I only truly value backwards compatibility when the new hardware adds to the previous game. So, with the GBASP it is a very big deal, but with the PS2 I have never used it and don't really care to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camp Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 What do you mean by "when the new hardware adds to the previous game"? The GBA doesn't do anything to make older games better (except for the improved SP screen) while the PS2 can actually make PS1 games look better. Though I get the feeling that's not what you mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark E Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 the PS2 can actually make PS1 games look better To be fair though, I have personally found this feature to be underwhelming at best the few times I've tried it. It may vary for others, but it has never to me struck me as all that useful, aesthetics or otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camp Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 I agree, Mark. I have seen it work very well on some titles but most of the time it's pretty tough to see the difference (unless you have the ability to have a second copy of the game running on a PSone nearby). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 I'm sure Square would consider it to be a must... the number of copies of the Final Fantasy games (including the more recently released Origins) that continue to sell is quite impressive. Most of the people I ask when they buy these games are playing them on a PS2. For customers though, I think it is quite a nice feature. It allows us to play older games that we still enjoy without having to have the old system hooked up, allows us to play older games that we may have missed (I know many of us continue to purchase classic games), and yes, mom and dad love that they don't have to throw out their current investment and start all over again (although that argument has always bothered me. It's a new system, why are you spending $300 on a new system to play the games you already own and can play fine?). I've spoken to more than a few people who are irritated that Ninetendo makes you rebuy "everything" with each console. One recently stated that he'd never buy a Nintendo system again because he now has a "useless" N64 with tons of game sitting in the basement that wouldn't work on the Gamecube had he purchased one. My dream is to one day have proper shelving that allows me to have all my old systems hooked up, ready to play, with all the games easy to access. Until that happens, backwards compatibility can help me play all my games (although I haven't experienced that since I still don't own a PS2). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamsappel Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 Originally posted by DrunkOM@Sep 11 2003, 01:53 PM (although I haven't experienced that since I still don't own a PS2). I don't understand how anyone who works in a game store doesn't own all three consoles. I figure the employee discount on a used system must be pretty good, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustyjaw Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 It's a new system, why are you spending $300 on a new system to play the games you already own and can play fine? Well, you aren't really. You're paying $300 to get a single box that will play all the new games and everything you already own (for that system). Some people, me included, don't want to collect consoles. If one box plays new and old games, I'm down with it. Like I said, I'm not going to turn down a new console just because it's not backward compatible...but it is an additional selling point for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camp Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 I don't understand how anyone who works in a game store doesn't own all three consoles. I figure the employee discount on a used system must be pretty good, no? Not necessarily. Lots of places don't even offer employee discounts on consoles. The reason is that the margin on consoles is so low that after deducting a discount the retailer is loosing money. TRU offered no employee discount on consoles (though I would allow my guys to take systems home). Game Crazy offers no employee discount on new, refirbished or used consoles. I can't speak for the EB's or Gamestops of the world but I'd imagine it's a similar story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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