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Kameo 360


Romier S
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In a continued effort to to break each of the upcoming 360 games into thier own threads instead of crowding the system discussion thread, I give you the Kameo thread. Kameo seems to be the kind of red headed stepchild of Rare's lineup since Perfect Dark is going to get all of the attention. Though I have to say that I like the look of Kameo and I do want to play it when it releases. Here are some new screenshots I came across earlier this morning:

 

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Not impressed buy Kameo. Sorry. Watched a video of it and it basically looked like a run-of-the-mill platformer with a lot of cool lighting effects and thousands of enemies onscreen at the same time. I may change my mind if I actually play it but even if I did, it all looks like stuff I've done before and I think I'm pretty much platformed out.

 

I'm probably in the minority here but I just think Rare is a horribly overrated developer in general. If I played Perfect Dark I might feel differently but it takes more than one game to become a "legendary" dev house (insert eye-roll smiley here) – despite a nervous chuckle here and there, Conker failed to impress me either. And Grabbed by the Ghoulies – ugh, I better shut up.

 

Kameo in general it just seems forced. Maybe it's because I'm seriously trying to cut down on games I'm willing to buy and at this point in the videogame industry's history, something better be pretty damn special for me to plunk $60 down on it.

 

Give me a few minutes to put my asbestos suit on before you all reply. ;)

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I'm probably in the minority here but I just think Rare is a horribly overrated developer in general.

 

You're not the only one, but I do think that Rare has produced some impressive games over the course of the company's history. Sure, a lot of what the company does is derivative of other games. The Donkey Kong Country games were nothing more than Mario clones with a big ape instead of an Italian plumber, Diddy Kong Racing was Mario Kart with slightly prettier graphics and new additional vehicles, and Banjo-Kazooie was simply another take of Super Mario 64. That said, I did enjoy all these games when they first came out and then you throw in titles likeGoldeneye, Perfect Dark, Battletoads and the highly under appreciated Blast Corps in there, I think that you have a developer with a pretty good track record overall.

 

I do believe that the company has not lived up to its reputation this generation. Star Fox Adventures was a mundane excercise overall, and Grabbed by the Ghoulies was flawed in a number of key areas. As much as I anticipated the remake of Conker (I loved the N64 version), I can't help but think that their time would be better spent making a true sequel rather than a remaking an old game.

 

I have high hopes for Perfect Dark Zero especially now that some of the screenshots are looking more in line with what I expect from a next-gen title. I'm also interested in Kameo because it sounds like it could be a very interesting premise. I'm hoping that Rare finally gets back into a regular practice of making excellent games. Perhaps these two launch titles for the Xbox 360 will get them off to a good start.

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I said in my 2005 E3 impressions thread that Kameo would be the sleeper of the launch titles. It wasn't just the lighting effects, thousands of enemies on-screen, or Kameo's shape-shifting abilities (with a still visible Kameo inside the semi-transparent form) that were impressive, it was the enemy AI that impressed me the most. I watched the E3 Kameo demo twice. Each one was run by a different person and depending on what they were doing with Kameo in the massive battle sequence, the thousands of orcs and the elves fighting would do different things (for example, if they used Kameo to help defeat an orc, the elf fighting that orc would move on to another orc but if they just stood there and an orc beat his elf opponent, the orc would either look for another elf to fight or even try to steal/mount Kameo's horse if it was nearby). To me, that's what I expect out of this next generation of games. Not just prettier games, but smarter games.

 

Of all the launch (window) titles, Kameo and Elder Scrolls IV are the only ones that may make me break down and buy a 360 at launch.

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This is more a question about Rare, but it does apply to Kameo so I was curious to hear your thoughts on this. What's the deal with fur shading? Rare just seems to go over the top on this and make every character with fur look like they're blurry and out of focus. They did the same thing with Conker on the Xbox and Star Fox Adventures for the Gamecube.

 

Does anyone think that they're really overdoing the effect?

 

Glen

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it was the enemy AI that impressed me the most. I watched the E3 Kameo demo twice. Each one was run by a different person and depending on what they were doing with Kameo in the massive battle sequence, the thousands of orcs and the elves fighting would do different things (for example, if they used Kameo to help defeat an orc, the elf fighting that orc would move on to another orc but if they just stood there and an orc beat his elf opponent, the orc would either look for another elf to fight or even try to steal/mount Kameo's horse if it was nearby). To me, that's what I expect out of this next generation of games. Not just prettier games, but smarter games.

 

That is ridiculously simple AI :) "Find Next Target" effectively :) Seriously, there is nothing sophisticated or complicated or nextgen about it.

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I don't like the character designs but the gameplay looks really interesting. If they manage to let the user creatively figure out many possible ways to use transforming creatures to complete puzzles (as opposed to just a single correct combination) then this might be a lot of fun.

The lighting looks much better in the new movies...just as in Perfect Dark.

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That is ridiculously simple AI "Find Next Target" effectively Seriously, there is nothing sophisticated or complicated or nextgen about it.

 

It may be "ridiculously simple", but I don't see alot of current generation games using it. Most games I've seen just cheat and hope nobody notices (in big battle scenes, the orcs and elves would just be appear to be fighting with a looping fight animation).

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It may be "ridiculously simple", but I don't see alot of current generation games using it.

 

Most games on the current gen don't have the processing capacity for that number of characters - that's why they cheat. Be impressed by the number of npcs processing. But don't be impressed because the NPCs are capable of choosing a new target once their current target is dead.

 

It's a standard AI technique - it's not sophisticated, it's not new, and even in current games, it'll be used by any game that has multiple targets for NPCs to attack.

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There's a nice interview at http://www.xboxyde.com for Kameo. For those interested in the game length and co-op, here's a bit from that interview.

 

Question: How long will the game take to finish?

 

If you?re an average player or someone not used to playing these kinds of game I think your looking around 30-35 hours it?s a big game. For a hardcore player I think your looking at the best part of about 20 hours from start to finish it?s a big game! One of the other cool features that we?ve got since we?ve moved over to 360 is co-op as well; which is something we haven?t been able to demonstrate to you guys today. So we have co-op over system link and co-op over split screen. For me that transforms the game, it adds another element to it when you are playing with somebody else on another machine and you have your own telly. I don?t know if you guys are familiar with those old style beat em ups like Final Fight and those scrolling Double Dragon style action games; but it has that kind of quality to it when you?re playing it so you can?t help hitting your friends when you?re running around trying to defeat them. It?s supposed to be co-operative but obviously, invariably leads to arguments and sorts of things in a fun kind of way. So going back to the original question about how long does it take to play, that is as long as you want it to be!

 

Question: Is this (the co-op) over Xbox Live as well?

 

The Xbox Live features of the game have not been announced for the game yet so we just have a little bit of time to let you know just to make sure you get something exciting to talk about down the line!

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I take it as a "Capt and iCamp can't read between the lines unless they're drawn with large chunks of bloody cat feeces" ... but that has nothing to do with this thread. Just in general. I guess the way I look at it is, if you're going to announce your various flavors of co-operative play, why not do it all at once if you consider, from a marketing perspective, that it's a significant feature worthy of keeping under wraps? Why dilute your X05 annoucement by revealing various forms of that feature (split-screen and system link) prior? That's why I interpret what they said the way I do. I think instead they'll have some other form of XBlive feature like versus play or scoreboards or GothamTV-like feature... something other than co-operative play.

 

That being said, I'd love for more games to have co-op play, and I think this might be one of my two launch titles I'll buy. I hope this clears up the bloody cat feeces.

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