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Mac people, please comment


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I'm in the process of making our website at work CSS complaint. Since I don't have access to a Mac, I've never seen how the site looks in the past. With the redesign, I'd like to have it look correct on a Mac as well.


I currently have to use a seperate style sheet for IE because it's so buggy (and I refuse to use hacks). The IE sheet uses all fixed elements in the header (it won't line up with centered content), while the normal sheet has fluid elements (that does lineup with centered content if the window size is larger than 800x600). The 1st link below shows what it looks like in Firefox and IE. The 2nd link is the actually test page. Please compare the test page on your Mac browser to the picture and let me know if it looks correct. If not, a screen capture would be great.


A big thanks in advance! :D


Firefox and IE pics


The test page

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At work I'm on Panther, which has Safari 1.3 (Tiger has v2). The page looks fine as long as the window is opened wide. But if I make the window more narrow, the "Tech Center" button drops down a line way before the window edge is near it. As I continue to shrink the window, no more buttons drop, but the "FAA" graphic at the very top disappears. Here's a shot with the window at 780 pixels wide:




It's up to you whether you want to make it work in Safari 1.3, but I would guess that maybe half of OS X users are still Panther.

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Thanks everyone. The behavior is such that the Tech Center button should move down to the 2nd line if the window is shrunk, although the FAA graphic should remain in it's current location. I'm guessing Safari doesn't support the "min-width" style which stops the collapsing at a specified width.


I designed the page for resolution higher than 800x600, but I wanted it to remain legible at lower resolutions. IE would royally screw things up with window resizing so I had to make the header fixed into place. I suppose I could check for Safari and let it use the IE style sheet, but the client sniffer I'm using doesn't recognize Safari. I'll have to think about this one.


Is there a specific resolution most Mac users use?

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Ah, CSS...


Browser engines (i.e. Gecko) shouldn't be platform specific and should look the same on Macs and PC's. SHOULD. The problems web designers in general have with CSS isn't platform-related – it's come-on-you-jerkbags-it's-now-2005-and-you-still-don't-fully-support-CSS-yet? related. You can have a web page be fully compliant with the W3C and use strict XHTML and it'll still break on half the current browsers out there because they in their infinite wisdom don't want to deal with HTML, XHTML, and CSS features that they don't feel are common enough (insert snooty "erhhh!!!" sound here)


On Macs, the absolute minimum most of us use from what I've seen is 1024x768. Then again I don't really associate much with Mac people outside of those in my industry who have extremely-powerful Macs (shut up, I know it's an oxymoron) and use multiple screens and obscenely huge resolutions to fit every palette in their workspaces. The widescreen movement is also a hindrance to designers used to making things in a 4:3 ratio.


So basically my point is to just make it a general rule to use as few bells and whistles as possible when designing stuff with CSS and be aware that some browser-makers (COUGH MICROSOFT COUGH) are just too friggin' bullheaded to fully support proven, authority-endorsed, half-decade-old technologies like CSS because they'd rather do things their own way. And the last word will always be good old fashioned trial and error... look at the site on different browsers on different platforms and try to avoid using CSS features that just plain don't work on the popular ones.


And get as many of your friends in your industry to inundate Microsoft and other software companies with letters telling them to get on the g**damn ball and quit trying to "innovate." We're the designers and we're the ones trying to make web pages look innovative. It's Microsoft's job to hand us the tools to do the job and we can't do the job when we're expected to hammer in a nail with a f***ing pizza cutter. That's not innovation. It's annoying.

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Would you Mac guys mind checking again please? :)


I have made a few changes which work well in Firefox. The behavior now is that the menu button will not drop down to a new line (nor should the anything else). If the window is scaled smaller than 800x600, it'll start to hide some of the menu buttons on the right, which is okay, since I'll repeat the links in a small footer.


The only quirk I could see happening is that there may be a scroll bar on the bottom of the browser window when it's sized down. This will happen if the browser does not support "overflow : hidden".


Anthony, I completely agree with everything you said. MS, the single worse violater of CSS code has had forever to give IE full and correct support. I hear IE version 7 is suppose to FINALLY do away with all the bugs (which there exist numerous hacks for) and have full & correct CSS support. I've got my fingers crossed. In the meantime, I'm going to try and make IE behave like Firefox with the site, but I have a feeling I'll be unsuccessful and have to stay with a fixed header.

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