Innovation in the industry - Gamespot takes a look with commentary from Tim Schafer

[Romier S]

Ran across this article today which I found to be a good read. It deals with the ever interesting question of whether innovation in the industry is, in fact, dying. Tim Schafer makes a good bit of commentary in the article about Psychonauts retail failure, the difficulties of pitching an original property to a publisher, and the trouble he's facing in securing a publisher for Double Fine's new project. I highly recommend reading through both his, and Pole's (former VU exec) commentary on the state of the industry and what the future may hold.

 

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6141519.html

 

"Pitching is pretty demoralizing," Schafer admits. "I'm working on a new game now and we have a couple of publishers that are very interested, but in finding them we talked to a lot of publishers who are incredibly risk averse. And in pitching the game to them I found myself playing down the innovation of the game and playing down the creativity of it a lot because it's--just hearing those words--those are the wrong words for them. I found myself trying to explain the game in terms of how everything in it had been done before just to calm them down, and then I come to work and I go to a design meeting and the focus has to be, 'How can we do something that's never been done before?'"

 

This pitch doesn't just make the difference between being picked up or not. It also impacts the game's budget.

 

"If you're using an existing game play mechanic that was a big hit and a big successful license you can do a $15 million or $20 million game now," Schafer says. "And if you want to talk about making either one of those original then, you now have knocked off $6 million off your budget right there."

[foogledricks]

That may sound tragic, but my answer to it is this: if you are crying about wanting to make innovative games, then don't tie your experimental game mechanics with high production cost elements. If you want to make a really expensive game with top-of-the-line whiz bang graphics and sound, but at the same time want to make it hugely experiemental in other areas, publishers will rightfully push back. And I think it is perfectly reasonable to push back on those grounds.

 

That's why I like the idea of XBlive Arcade. Developers don't feel the need to tie high production values into the games, so those with an innovation bug can make games without the huge financial risks.

[JFo]

That may sound tragic, but my answer to it is this: if you are crying about wanting to make innovative games, then don't tie your experimental game mechanics with high production cost elements.

 

I agree completely, Keith. I think the publishers have every right to decide a game’s budget based on how well they think it will sell. I love games that try new and experimental ideas, but realize that there is a greater financial risk in making them. If you’re trying to create something that doesn’t fit into a pre-existing genre, there’s no precedent to say that it will be a hit. The same goes for new franchises.

 

I almost look at it like the film industry. If you want to make a huge summer blockbuster that’s based on a familiar intellectual property with lots of cool action sequences and special effects, you’ll probably find yourself with a pretty large budget. If, on the other hand, you want to make something far beyond what mainstream audiences want to see, you shouldn’t expect a $100 million budget.

 

I think a recent example of a game that took the right approach to experimental gameplay was Katamari Damacy. The core mechanics of that title were obviously weird enough, but then the developer threw in a wacky Japanese aesthetic that can only be described as utterly insane. Rather than lavish it with super-high production values, they kept the graphics simple, made sure the music was fun and catchy, and concentrated on making the game fun to play. It also doesn’t hurt that they priced it at a reasonable $20 price tag to entice those who might not have purchased it at $40 or $50. The end result was a game that sold well enough to merit a sequel.

[Blind Squirrel]

Here's my take on this:

 

I don't own Psychonauts. I might buy it, but not until it's at the $20 range. I've heard how great it is, but I find that it can often be harder to trust the hype on games like Psychonauts than it can be for games like Halo 2. A lot of games get overhyped just because they're different. At least with high-profile games there are enough dissenters out there to give the other side of the story.

 

The problem with a lot of experimental games is that the uniqueness doesn't completely make up for lackluster implementation in other areas. Take Eternal Darkness, for example: The "sanity" system was a neat idea, but it wasn't worked very well into the gameplay. What that left you with was basically a dungeon crawl with mediocre combat, uninspired puzzles, and a story which is only noteworthy for being very Lovecraft-esque. All together it was an alright game, but without anywhere near the attention to detail required to make it a great game.

 

I really like the idea of making the experimental games with lower production values and cheaper prices. If the ideas work out, go back and make a higher budget version when you have enough of a fan base to sell it to and you've gotten the basic ideas down well enough to put some polish on them.

[Romier S]

I've heard how great it is, but I find that it can often be harder to trust the hype on games like Psychonauts than it can be for games like Halo 2. A lot of games get overhyped just because they're different.

You know Psychonauts isn't terribly different in terms of innovative design. It is very much a platformer with some uniqe gameplay mechanics, and yes some of the pitfalls inherent with the genre (i.e. collecting items etc.). What differentiates it as a game is the level of polish, the stunning level design which puts most platformers out there to shame really, and the unique art style that Tim Schafer has come to be recognized for. Almost every last piece of the game worked so well for me that it truly stood out as one of the best platformers out there this generation IMO (with the final level being the only blight).

 

I certainly didn't mean to pull the conversation away from the innovation in the industry discussion and purely to Psychonauts, but it's a good game that is worth playing regardless of the amount of hype associated with it. It's just a damn good time, and well worth spending your hard earned cash on. I'd definitely recommend you give this thread a read if you want to take a look at a range of opinions Blind, as well as the review Jeff did for the site which very clearly does not gush but gives a very honest opinion of the game...

 

http://www.lcvg.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3122&highlight=Psychonauts

[Blind Squirrel]

Gamespot's next part is up.

 

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6141548.html

 

This is actually the first time I heard about Castaway. I guess they were overshadowed at the time by Flagship Studios, but it's nice to hear that there's another RPG in the works that could have potential.

[dogbert]

Double Fine is a difficult example as a great many of their problems are self-inflicted through poor internal management (something they've freely admitted in post mortems of Psychonauts). They're pitching another creative project when they've demonstrated no ability to bring such a project in on time & on budget (both factors that are major concerns in this industry right now, particulary the budget issue as project costs spiral up).

 

I'd hate to be a small indie trying to find funding or even a project from a publisher right now.

[dogbert]

And I think something else that's worth mentioning - the press & communities online push quite vocally for innovation yet by & large, the game buying public do not buy wholly innovative games. They seem to prefer maybe one or two "innovations" with a healthy dose of familiarity.

 

Would "you" bet $4-6 million on an unproven intellectual property with unproven gameplay mechanics?

[Covak]

Steam is making a difference for me. Darwinia's not new, but I hadn't heard about it until it hit Steam, and now it's one of my favorite games of the year.

 

Rag Doll Kung Fu is another of my favorites this year.

 

And I think if Steam had been around for MoonBase Commander it might have done well enough.

 

I'd say things are looking up for innovative budget titles, at least.

[Ksolo12]

You know Psychonauts isn't terribly different in terms of innovative design. It is very much a platformer with some uniqe gameplay mechanics' date=' and yes some of the pitfalls inherent with the genre (i.e. collecting items etc.). What differentiates it as a game is the level of polish, the stunning level design which puts most platformers out there to shame really, and the unique art style that Tim Schafer has come to be recognized for. Almost every last piece of the game worked so well for me it truly stood out as one of the best platformers out there this generation IMO (with the final level being the only blight).

 

I certainly didn't mean to pull the conversation away from innovation in the industry and purely to Psychonauts, but it's a good that is worth playing regardless of the amount of hype associated with it. It's just a damn good time, and a game well worth spending your hard earned cash on. I'd definitely recomment you give this thread a read if you want to take a look at a range of opinions Blind, as well as the review Jeff did for the site which very clearly does not gush but gives a very honest opinion of the game...

 

http://www.lcvg.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3122&highlight=Psychonauts

 

Thanks for the link. I found this game (brand new) at Game Crazy for $19.99 I would have never thought about picking up this game had it not been for this thread. I have numerous games that have never been opened and little time to play due to work and family. My kids had a complete blast playing this game. I even jumped in and took the controller away from the. The gameplay is very innovative. This one slipped through the cracks; however, I am happy with my purchase at 19.99. What a steal.

[Blind Squirrel]

Game Crazy? Haven't heard about that place before. How is their service?

[Ksolo12]

Game Crazy? Haven't heard about that place before. How is their service?

 

They appear to be associated with Hollywood Video as they are located within some many of the Hollywood Video stores. Their service is pretty much the same with any other video game store. Nothing really special; however, they do have a good sale going on until January 7th. A lot of newly release games are selling for $29.99 right now.

[Romier S]

Nothing really special

To be fair they do offer some of the best trade in value for games. I wish I had a Gamecrazy in my areas as I'd happily take advantage of that. Gamestop/EB offer some really crappy trade in dollars for even some newer games.