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Gamecube, the new Dreamcast?


merlot
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Most of us know the Dreamcast died much too shortly. It represented a big leap over the 32bit and 64bit consoles in terms of graphics. It had some of the best titles of it's time. It did all things well. It was home to many fighting games, including 2 of the best, SF3 & SC. It also had great racing titles, such as Test Drive Lemans. It was ahead of it's time with online play.

 

Fast forward to todays Gamecube. It's not the market leader, as many consider the PS2 and Xbox before the GC. Yet it has some of the best titles of this time; Zelda, Metroid Prime, Mario, F-Zero, Eternal Darkness, Viewtiful Joe & even arguably Ikaruga. Add to that the Capcom remakes of RE and Metal Gear Solid, which could have been straight ports, but instead incorporate the GC's graphic capabilities.

 

Add the Gameboy Player to it and now you have a huge library of great titles available. With the number of remakes by Nintendo and others, you can easily relive the 16bit days.

 

It seemed many people acknowledged the DC's greatness after it was gone. I hope this isn't the case for the Cube... hell, at $99 I hope more people will see the potential this little cube has.

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It's funny that you mention the price. Until the DC neared its life's end, I had largely ignored it. Once it reached a price I didn't have to think twice before buying, I recognized its greatness.

 

The same will be happening for the 'Cube, for me anyway.

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-Merlot and Sam, you both said it perfectly, I don't have much to add to the discussion so I guess I'm gonna have to go out and get that Gamecube I've been eyeing! I'm looking for the best GC deal I can find right now, what are some suggestions, i.e. Package deals, coupons, old stand-by BB gamergift card ??

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If you're looking for game recommendations, there are a few threads in the GameCube forum of that nature as well, just in case anybody is looking around and interested ;).

 

I've really started to see the Cube as the successor to the DreamCast lately, especially since we've been getting a lot of games on it that are unique and bizarre and wouldn't come out on other systems. I mean, there are no equivalent titles for Super Monkey Ball or Animal Crossing on the other two, for example.

 

I think the Cube has a bit brighter future though, what with the sales surge prompted by the insane price cut and the immediately marketable Nintendo mascots. Sure they may not have sold the system before, but if you bought a cheapass GameCube don't you want Mario, Zelda, and/or Metroid to go with it? Probably!

 

There is, btw, a specific and insanely priced combo pack right now that comes with the Cube, a memory card, and Super Mario Sunshine for not much above the $99 price point. Glen mentions the prices in his bargains thread I think, or the price drop thread. :)

 

Next year will be even more Dreamcast-esque with the release of Donkey Konga, one of the first peripheral based rhythm games we've seen domestically released since Samba De Amigo :green:

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Jtello, I would highly recommend looking at your local Walmart to see what they have to offer.

 

I've heard that there have been more than a few people that have found the Zelda bundled Gamecube for $99.99 at their local Walmart.

 

Also, that deal that I mentioned in my bargain thread is a very good one as well since it comes with the Mem Card as well.

 

I've always thought of the Gamecube as the Dreamcast's successor, and always in a positive way. I really don't think that this console is even on it's last legs... unlike the DC which just seemed to lose all steam by this point.

 

For me, my DC and my Gamecube have gotten the most play of all of my systems in the last few years. Honestly, if I hadn't gotten Kotor for my Xbox or NCAA Football for my PS2, I probably wouldn't have touched either of them in months.

 

Glen

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While I generally agree with everyone else here, I do find it mildly amusing we're all having this conversation the week that the Cube has outsold the PS2 and beat the XBox by nearly 2.5 to 1. Not that I expect the massive sales to last that long, once everyone gets used to the new price.

 

Whole stack of games coming out for Christmas, though, so you never know.

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Very true, iain. I can name at least two games I want in every month leading up to Christmas. Mind you that's not much for some but my wallet doesn't care for it and it sucks since I cannot actually afford all of them.

 

Mario Kart is already a must-have for me, since my girlfriend will likely play it with me, everything else is up in the air.

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The analogy doesn't realy fit for me.

 

The dc (which i did own) seemed to just have poor timing. It simply didn't matchup against the ps2 or the xbox, and therefore was quickly moved to the back shelf.

 

The gamecube on the other hand has suffered from bad marketing, imo. Almost all of the exclusive titles have been more or less kiddie games, now ps2 and xbox have upped the ante w/ people expecting online play w/ voice communication. The gamecube simply hasn't kept up. :roll:

 

I think the gc will continue to maintain a niche market, but I don't think I'll look back in 5 years and sing it's praises. I think the jaguar might be a closer comparison than the dc. :shock:

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Almost all of the exclusive titles have been more or less kiddie games

 

Metroid Prime, Eternal Darkness, Ikaruga, F-Zero, Viewtiful Joe, etc. are "kiddie games"? Why, because there is no gratuitous nudity or gore? :roll: Sorry, but I just hate that arguement. And I could see how games like Zelda WW, Animal Crossing, Mario, etc. could be pre-judged as "kiddie" based on their graphics, but I would think an appropriate term would be "all-ages" games...we aren't exactly talking Fisher Price or Reader Rabbit here!

 

I think the jaguar might be a closer comparison than the dc.

 

It has been around for more than 10 minutes and sold more than 10 systems, so that analogy is out the window. :P

 

All I can say is, I have been buying a ton of GC stuff lately with the large amount of quality exclusive titles at really great prices. Not to mention buying a lot of GBA stuff for use on my GB Player.

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secretvamp,

 

I total agree with everything you said.

 

However, I will suggest that it's what the GC lacks that makes it appear "kiddie." The games you listed aren't inherently "kiddie", no. But at the same time the GC doesn't have (and there is no intention of having) any particularly "adult" titles. Thus often people draw the connection between the GC and kiddiness.

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Almost all of the exclusive titles have been more or less kiddie games,

 

That's not bad marketing, it's consumer ignorance.

 

the GC doesn't have (and there is no intention of having) any particularly "adult" titles.

 

Sam, I'll argue this point because while I don't know your own definition of adult, mine involves mature storylines and visuals/scenes that may be too intense for children. If you mean GTA levels of sex and anti-social violence then maybe, maybe you would have a point.

 

However, Eternal Darkness is NOT a kid's game. It's got a tight plot, creepy visuals, and is one of the best horror titles I've ever played. Resident Evil is likewise NOT a kid's game. Not quite as creepy but the gore factor is notched up quite handily.

 

And the term kiddie game is inane anyway. Just because I can't eviscerate the animals in Animal Crossing does that somehow make it a deficient piece of entertainment? It's not a personal slam on you, Sam, don't get me wrong. But realistically, people who think they're all too adult for those sort of games ought to take a step back and realize that, woah, they're playing video games.

 

Secretvampire has the right take on it, in my opinion.

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I was thinking about things like Nintendo's stand on things like a no-blood policy. And its lack of first person shooters.

 

But as mentioned, gratuitous violence isn't any measure of adultness. I haven't played ED, but what you've said does indeed suggest a very mature subject matter. I stand corrected.

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Originally posted by Sam P:

I was thinking about things like Nintendo's stand on things like a no-blood policy.

 

...which went out the window after Mortal Kombat sold more copies on the Genesis than the Super Nintendo. Although I will freely admit that it took them a lot longer to loosen up in other areas (sexual content, alcohol, and cursing to name a few).

 

Getting back to the topic at hand, I agree with a lot of things merlot said in the initial post. However, I would go further and suggest that the N64 is much the same way. There are many, many great games for that system - some of the best from the previous generation or even ever - and yet the system was considered a failure. The only difference between it and the Dreamcast is that very few people look back on that system as fondly for whatever reason.

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There are many, many great games for that system - some of the best from the previous generation or even ever - and yet the system was considered a failure. The only difference between it and the Dreamcast is that very few people look back on that system as fondly for whatever reason.

 

N64 was by no means a failure.

 

Yes, it was 2nd to the Playstation but it sold very, very well. It's a pretty huge leap to compare the death of the Dreamcast to the N64 as well. Dreamcast sales were abysmal compared to N64 (and to Gamecube, for that matter).

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The only difference between it (N64) and the Dreamcast is that very few people look back on that system as fondly for whatever reason.

 

-I have to disagree with this, I loved my N64, but the numerous graphics issues really bothered me, and in comparison the Dreamcast's graphics were refreshingly crisp and rich.

 

-Also, Nintendo tried to take a few chances with the 64 but they in the end they seemed to go awry, i.e. the graphics processor and the 64DD. Sega on the other hand took chances which they executed realitively well, such as supporting music CD play back and Internet play, but the DC doomed by the lack of consumer support.

 

-I'm sure there is a long list of significant differences that I have not touched on, but I think you can tell what I'm getting at, the DC and the N64 were certainly much different beasts.

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I suppose my comparison of the gamecube to the jag wasn't that well thought out. After giving it some more thought a good real world comparison would've been comparing the gamecube to the macintosh, just a niche market that's pretty much over looked by the general population.

 

Even saying that, I think my comparison to the jag was closer than the original comparison of the dc. The dc is looked upon so favorably because it was ahead of it's time in so many respects. The gamecube is falling behind, NOT blazing new trails. :?

 

For those that didn't like my "kiddie" reference. Have no fear, I know I'm a 14 yr old trapped in an old mans body. And please note my frame of reference is from a marketing perspective, as I don't own the gamecube. The mature games that have been mention are of no consequence to me, as metroid prime is the only one ever even heard of.

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I disagree with the original post, the gamecube is a nice game machine - nothing more. The DC pushed the envelope and really broke new ground. It was fresh, innovative, had great games, but ultimately was (unfairly) pounded out of existence by PS2 hype. The DC would likely still be around if Sony hadn't marketed it right out of the picture (which was smart by Sony don't get me wrong.)

 

The DC was the first to have 'this' gen graphics, first to include a modem link in every box, had that super groovy controller, and fantastic 1st and 3rd party games. GC has the games, but innovative? I don't see how, by example trying to get big N's box online is like blood from a stone - they have even stated they don't see any value in online gaming. And the controller is not so grand, IMHO it sucks compared to a dual shock or even Xbox S type. The GC exists solely as a platform to sell Nintendo's 1st party games, let's not fool ourselves on that point. Those games ARE great, but I don't see why we should line up to announce the GC as best console of the generation.

 

If you are talking pure innovation that will forever change consoles, I don't see how you can't give this award to the Xbox. It comes packaged with a HDD, 5.1 sound on every game, 1080i support (first console ever to do that), an ethernet connection, and ability for broadband gaming with voice support on every console sold. Plus it plays DVDs, CDs, can act as a digital jukebox, chatroom, and soon online karaoke.

 

I don't see how the GC competes with that in term of 'innovation'. GC is a good game console with great games, but innovation isn't it's strong point.

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Snakefish,

 

I didn't say that the GC was the greatest console, nor did I say it was innovative. I simply stated that like the DC, it's underated. It's not huge with casual gamers, yet it has some of the best games around. Will people not see this until after it dies? Speaking of which, I don't think that will happen any time soon...

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such as supporting music CD play back and Internet play

 

Since every CD based system before it supported music playback, this should have been a given and rather inconsiquential since by the time the DC was out, CDs were dirt cheap. I don't know anyone that used their DC as a CD player, and in the end adding CD support bit them in the ass as it opened to door to rampant pirating.

 

And as for internet play... it was a good idea and done alright, but there were far too many screw ups for it to be the DC saviour that Sega was trying to push it as. Mainly it was just too late though.

 

The DC was the first to have 'this' gen graphics

 

Great, they were loverly for the time.

 

first to include a modem link in every box

 

Which was practically useless out of the box, and useless to many of the system's hardcore fans and niche market once they did start to put out games for it (Almost everyone I knew was past dial up by that point).

 

had that super groovy controller

 

Which most people hated. It's best feature was the VMU, which wasn't put to good use all that often.

 

and fantastic 1st and 3rd party games.

 

1st party yes. 3rd was ultimatly pretty average, and the lack of EA support hurt the DC severely.

 

GC has the games, but innovative? I don't see how

 

You're looking too much at the hardware. When some people think of the DC as an innovative machine, they see games that were different and fresh from the standard, most of which were done by Sega. Things like Samba, Seaman, Space Channel and Jet Set Radio. The Cube has a similar sort of line up of games that try to do something a bit different than the norm. Unfortunatly these types of games are also part of the reason why they are both considered niche systems.

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