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heavy liquid
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Another thread got me thinking about this...

 

Can anyone name all the domestic 2D games for the current generation consoles? These are the only ones I can think of:

 

MegaMan Network Transmission (GC)

Viewtiful Joe (GC)

Ikaruga (GC)

Mobile Light Force 2 (PS2)

Klonoa 2 (PS2)

 

Are there any I'm missing? I know there are a couple of shooters that never made it out of Japan, but I'm only really interested in domestic titles.

 

This is really a ridiculously small amount of games that feature 2D gameplay. Such a shame...

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Oh, right. Forgot about the fighting games. Add Guilty Gear and Guilty Gear X (PS2) to the list. Oh, and Contra: Shattered Soldier (PS2).

 

I also forgot about the collections. If those are included, you could also add Activision Anthology (PS2) and the upcoming Intellivision Collection and Midway Arcade Treasures.

 

It's still a horribly small list for new 2D games:

 

MegaMan Network Transmission (GC)

Viewtiful Joe (GC)

Ikaruga (GC)

Super Smash Brothers: Melee (GC) - it's almost all 2D, right?

Mobile Light Force 2 (PS2)

Klonoa 2 (PS2)

Guilty Gear (PS2)

Guilty Gear X (PS2)

Contra: Shattered Soldier (PS2)

Capcom vs. SNK 2 (All) (upgraded for GC & XB)

Marvel vs. Capcom 2 (XB & PS2)

Egg Mania (All)

Super Bust-A-Move 1 (PS2)

Super Bust-A-Move 2 (Bust-A-Move 3000 on the GC)

Tetris Worlds (All)

 

Anything else? Only 15 games?

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It's still a horribly small list for new 2D games:

 

True, everybody moved over to 3D. That's what makes the Cube and the Gameboy Player nice... as much 2D as you want :)

 

I'm currently playing one the hardest games known to man: Super Ghouls & Ghosts. It looks great too, just like playing the SNES version!

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liquid,

 

I'm curious to why you are partial to 2D games because of their intrinsic 2D quality. I have no particular preference if we are simply deciding between 2D vs. 3D without context. If its a good 2D game, great! Likewise for 3D. But you seem to lean towards 2D in general.

 

How come?

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just interested in your point of view.

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Hey Sam,

 

I actually don't have any particular preference of 2D over 3D. As you, as long as the 2D or 3D game is good, great!

 

The 'friends stuck in the old days' thread got me curious as to how many new 2D games have actually come out. And out of the list, there's only maybe half that I myself really enjoy.

 

It's also been on my mind because I'm enjoying the heck out of Viewtiful Joe right now, and have absolutely loved some of the new 2D platformers on the GBA such as the Castlevania's and Ninja Five-O. And with the new generation of handhelds on the horizon, we may see no 2D games on them besides the odd port as they make the move to 3D gaming that the home consoles have already made.

 

I would hate to see 2D die out, as I think there's much more that can be explored and done with it. Viewtiful Joe and Klonoa 2 are good examples of great new and innovative 2D games IMO.

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I would hate to see 2D die out, as I think there's much more that can be explored and done with it. Viewtiful Joe and Klonoa 2 are good examples of great new and innovative 2D games IMO.

 

 

I haven't played VJ past the demo but I'm certain it makes lots of innovations as far as 2D is concerned.

 

It's funny. With the emergence of 3D it appears that developers feel it's always a big improvement when anything moves into 3D.

 

Take the theme park games for instance.

 

The seminal Roller Coaster Tycoon was fabulous. Terrific 2D management game with a very special charm. It looked great, sounded better and positively grabbed me. However, not long after its release I caught wind of something that was supposed to be even better - Sim Theme Park. It was going to be everything that made RCT great and more because it would be 3D! It was going to let you walk around the park as a guest and even hop on to rides you design. On paper, it was flawless.

 

When I finally got my hands on it, something was missing. It was everything promised but somehow the atmosphere was different. It didn't have the sort of endearing, cute quality that RCT was dripping with. It was indeed rendered in 3D and you could do everything as advertised but it had none of the charm of RCT. In short, though it was a 3D game it didn't capture the theme park essence. Which is rather funny, because after all, 3D was supposed to be more realistic, more immersive, right?

 

I could never quite put a finger on it but when I played RCT2 recently it told me everything I needed to know. I like it so much more. And I do know that alot of it has to do with the implementation of 2D.

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It's funny. With the emergence of 3D it appears that developers feel it's always a big improvement when anything moves into 3D.

 

I guess that's part of what I'm trying to say, as well. The GBA Castlvania's have been great, received good reviews and sold well (I think). I remember reading that they feel they can only reach a bigger audience by moving it to 3D. They seem to think the majority PS2 owners wouldn't accept a 2D Castlvania. I would much rather them keep it 2D, but try something new with it like (again) Viewtiful Joe. Or how about even keeping the same gameplay, but giving it hi-rez hand drawn animation (like Guilty Gear) so it's like playing an anime? Just throwing out ideas...

 

Of course, there are examples of 2D games making the jump and translating to 3D spectacularly. Mario 64 amd Metroid Prime coming to mind immediately, and I love both of those games. That being said, I enjoyed Metroid Fusion on the GBA almost as much as Prime.

 

But maybe 2D games wouldn't and don't sell well anymore. Only a few on that list have made really big money. And as for trying new things and innovation, think of all the innovative games that have failed miserably. Rez?

 

I could never quite put a finger on it but when I played RCT2 recently it told me everything I needed to know. I like it so much more. And I do know that alot of it has to do with the implementation of 2D.

 

I've never played any of the theme park games. So do you know exactly what it is with Sim Park Theme that didn't work for you? Was it just the aptmosphere and charm of the 2D, or something in the gameplay as well?

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Since you haven't played them, I better clarify - the 2D to 3D comparison is analogous to the 2D of Warcraft II vs. the 3D of Warcraft III.

 

With regards to Sim Theme Park, it was a combination of many things.

 

On the surface, the 3D graphics lacked polish. In 1st person park roam mode, there was plenty of sloppiness with the clipping - you could walk right through fences and (if I recall correctly) through other guests, too. Everything, though 3D, had a sense of cardboard-cutout-look to it. Utterly unconvincing.

 

Also, the interaction just wasn't there. You were a ghost. You couldn't talk to guests and you didn't line up alongside them for the attractions - you simply walked through them and entered a "ride mode", which wasn't particularly satisfying. It was infinitely more satisfying to watch the guests ride and scream with joy/fear/motion sickness.

 

Overall the game just looked bad. It was trying to be cartoony but couldn't really manage it without looking sloppy.

 

And that's just it. There was no logical reason for it to be in 3D. It took more hardware performance to run, but there was no benefit from having it in 3D. It didn't look better than RCT, didn't function better, and the abilities it added weren't worthwhile.

 

I think the most relevant point here is that I expected Sim Theme Park to wipe the floor with RCT for several reasons - not the least of which was that it was the first 3D Theme Park game.

 

Of course, there are examples of 2D games making the jump and translating to 3D spectacularly. Mario 64 amd Metroid Prime coming to mind immediately, and I love both of those games. That being said, I enjoyed Metroid Fusion on the GBA almost as much as Prime.

 

I liked Mario64, but I had some issues with the camera. For some of the jumps, I didn't like the idea of not only lining up my character, but having the juggle the camera as well. That's one of the reasons I tend to prefer 2D platformers.

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Originally posted by heavy liquid:

This is really a ridiculously small amount of games that feature 2D gameplay. Such a shame...

 

It is indeed. However, if you invested the money in a GameCube and an Game Boy Player, you will have just about as many 2D games at your disposal as you could possibly stand to have. :)

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Thanks for the description, Sam. I think some of the problems you describe will change for the better as PC systems and consoles become more powerful, and support better and better graphics. I'd argue that their pretty polished now. Age of Mythology is amazing looking!

 

It is indeed. However, if you invested the money in a GameCube and an Game Boy Player, you will have just about as many 2D games at your disposal as you could possibly stand to have.

 

Oh, I have both. ;) However, I remember reading a list of games for the GBA that are actually new, and not ports, and you'd be surprised at how small that list is. I'll try to look for the list.

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